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PostPosted: Nov 15th, '17, 01:20 
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He everyone. First post and I'm sure it has been covered. I have seen some answers and logically it makes sense but I want to ask the pros(that's you guys)

Based on some height restrictions for the system I'm building I was wondering if I could have the fish tank drain into the sump. Then the sump move the water up to the growbeds and the growbeds drain into the tank. Makes sense. Everything still flows together. Sort of a chift pist system.

Are there issues with pumping dirty tank water into the sump and then to the growbeds? Should I throw some media in the sump to act as a pre biofilter? Just have the tank as a water buffer? Any creative ideas?

Thanks so much for being around. I have red so much on here.


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PostPosted: Nov 15th, '17, 14:18 
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Bump and welcome to the forum :wave:


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PostPosted: Nov 15th, '17, 14:26 
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It works fine, my small system water circulates from FT to sump via a SLO, then pumped to GBs and drained to FT, with one pump in the sump. My FT and ST are buried in the ground. Plenty of photos in the thread linked below.

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PostPosted: Nov 15th, '17, 19:01 
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the solids will be broken up more that way, but the opposite way (sump -> FT -> GB) makes it harder to get even water flow to all beds.

its pretty much setup it up one way or another, as long as its one pump and everything flows back into a sump its hard to stuff things up (except for pumping rates and head heights if you oversize your pump, say for future expansion, etc)


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PostPosted: Nov 15th, '17, 19:18 
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Will work. However, the solids you are sending to the ST, will be broken down even finer when sent through pump and the becoming trapped in GBs. This could cause problems within your GBs by creating anaerobic pockets within the media and lead poor growth/performance of your system and increased maintenance depending upon how big the system is.

I would try remove as many solids from the water (static upflow or radial flow settler) before reaching GBs.

Ideally, add a separate biological filter after the SUF/RFS. You would be able to have two loops and if you needed to address something in either (say treat fish illness), you could do so and still have a biological filter already online instead of the biological contained within the GB.

Welcome to the forum and Good Luck!

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PostPosted: Nov 15th, '17, 20:27 
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Also, if returning to FT via bell siphons from GBs (which may reduce risk of anaerobic pockets in GBs), and using SLO from FT to sump, you need to make sure the SLO pipework has a large enough diameter, because the inflow from bell siphons, possibly more than one at the same time, will be fast.


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PostPosted: Nov 16th, '17, 08:31 
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I want to thank everyone for the help. You are reassuring me I know what I'm doing. I'm using 2 external bell siphons with 3/4 inch outlets and the tank I have a 1 1/4 SLO out of the fish tank. The bells should take out some risk of anaerobic pockets and I will have bubblers and one of those water movement fans in the fish tank too.
Thank you for all the guidance on these forums.


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PostPosted: Nov 16th, '17, 18:37 
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Just be aware Mitch, if you want to keep your system as simple as possible, the anaerobic card is well and truly overstated and overplayed on forums.

I've had a single IBC system running in the front of my shop for 5.5 years without any mechanical filtration (other than the GB), with the all fish waste going through the pump and up into the GB. It has a siphon with the intake slots in the bell purposely up from the base of the bell about 40-50mm so that the fines will settle in the GB , because that's where I want them... It has yet to become anaerobic. Some very prominent AP practitioners have had systems run even longer than that without any form of mechanical filtration, including Joel who started this forum.

I actually designed the system this way to prove the point about anaerobic zones taking much longer to develop than many people say. If your system is well designed, stocked sensibly and planted sensibly, you will get years out of a bed before it becomes anaerobic.

If you do add a swirl filter or radial flow filter and remove the fish waste prior to it entering the GB, you will be removing the overwhelming majority the mineral nutrients from the system, ie: Potassium, Calcium, Phosphorus, Magnesium, Iron, Zinc etc, and create an imbalance between all these mineral nutrients and the Nitrogen in the system, which is constantly being produced. To reduce the chance/occurrence of nutrient deficiencies you will need to collect the solids from the filter and treat them in bio-digester etc, to release as much of the nutrients as possible, then add them back into the system... Worms in the GB are far more efficient at releasing nutrients from the fish waste.

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PostPosted: Nov 16th, '17, 19:47 
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Mr Damage wrote:
Just be aware Mitch, if you want to keep your system as simple as possible, the anaerobic card is well and truly overstated and overplayed on forums.


+1

My small system has been operating with no filter other than the GBs since May 2013, with no anaerobic issues, and I haven't cleaned out any of the GBs in that time. For a while I had 220 trout fingerlings and a few dozen Murray Cod in it - the GBs handled it with no extra filtration.

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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '17, 18:33 
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Though I agree with Damage and Gunagulla, I'd like to add a reason to include a filter:
My indoor system is FT -> RFF -> ST and even with the RFF, there is still a buildup of waste in the ST over time. Partly because the RFF has a slightly low retention time, but also the fact that the reach the pump has in the ST doesn't get everything off the floor. My point is that a FT -> (RFF ->) ST setup is likely to require more maintenance if your ST surface area is large in relation to the pump's suction.

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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '17, 19:31 
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That is actually a great point Depusa. An idea or two I had that might help in that situation would be to either have a powerhead in the sump just keeping the water moving. Aka stir it up or make it a radial filter with no filter. Just have the pump centered in a way that all waste just directed to it.

My other thought is if I'm able to keep my water oxygenated enough I could put a small amount if media and worms letting the waste be broken down in the sump and hopefully with the works moving a little and some heavily moving water that should get the nutrients to the pump.


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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '17, 21:16 
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but if you drain to FT from GBs with siphons, then the flow from FT to sump will be correspondingly rapid, which should cause enough turbulence that all solids will eventually find their way to the pump... especially if, as you mentioned, the pump and the SLO inflow are strategically positioned to take advantage of radial motion!

I don't imagine that you would want media in the sump, you would want smooth bottom to facilitate removal of all the solids, to the GBs, which is where you want the worms.


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PostPosted: Nov 17th, '17, 22:16 
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Depsua wrote:
there is still a buildup of waste in the ST over time. Partly because the RFF has a slightly low retention time, but also the fact that the reach the pump has in the ST doesn't get everything off the floor.


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PostPosted: Nov 18th, '17, 00:10 
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Mr Damage wrote:
Broom handiwork

My point exactly :thumbright:

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PostPosted: Nov 18th, '17, 06:26 
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or just dont worry about a small buildup of solids in the sump.... because they dont matter....


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