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PostPosted: Mar 7th, '18, 02:27 
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Hey everyone, (I have a 25 Gallon Tank)

I have been growing with aquaponics for some time now, but I am finding that the guessing I am doing is getting old very fast.

I can't seem to find out where my nutrient levels should be for example:

- Potassium - 150 ppm?
- Calcium - 100 ppm?

Etc.......

I have looked to the point where my mind is fried, and my happiness is gone.

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could tell me the recommended ppm amounts for the following nutrients, so my system won't be deficient for a 25 gallon system.

Potassium
Phosphates
Calcium
Magnesium

It is very stressful trying to find this information. It seems all I do is guess.

I have been seeing potassium deficiency in my system, and I have been adding potassium hydroxide which will raise my ph, and then I use HCI to lower it, so it doesn't swing to much. My avg ph is 6.4.

When I add potassium hydroxide I use maxi-crop seaweed at 1/2 tsp per 25 gallon tank. I see some improvement over the first day or 2 with the yellowing between the leaves as well as the leaf in general feels softer; however, after the first couple days the noticeable improvement goes away to be a ???? is it getting better. After about 3 days I concede that the plant isn't improving anymore because it looks the same or in this case of my last dosing it got worse and the improvements didn't show across all plants.

I have tried using potassium sulfate, but It never seems to give me any good results. Not sure if I have a bad batch or maybe i am adding to much? can't ever seem to tell how much to add of any nutrient to get improvement. When I was using potassium sulfate I would add 1/8th to 1/4th tsp to the system.

I will locate some picture, so you can see how things look.

Also, I have heard / read of people using testers to find out what the ppm's on most of the primary / secondary nutrients.

I would greatly appreciate it if someone would tell me / refer me to testers for all primary and secondary nutrients, so I can keep my nutes at the right levels all the way through my grow.

Also, I am growing cannabis in Michigan under the medical laws. Trying to offer a purely organic product.

Thanks for your help everyone!! :wave1:

Added: Pictures


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PostPosted: Mar 7th, '18, 03:51 
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I'm not certain what your levels should be at but have you tried spray applying the potassium? I think potassium bicarbonate is approved for organic certification (as an organic fungicide and I'm not sure what else) and by spray applying you avoid lockout due to pH or an over-abundance of other ions like calcium or magnesium.

Potassium Chloride as a spray is another option if it's approved for organic use.


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PostPosted: Mar 7th, '18, 04:05 
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Thanks for the reply !! ;)

I have tried spraying with potassium chloride; however, it seems to have no effect. This may be because I am not sure the ratio of potassium chloride to 1 gallon of water. I have heard 1 tsp to 4 tsp. Any advice on how to make foliage sprays would be greatly appreciated.

I have potassium chloride, calcium chloride, Epsom salt that I think could be used as foliage sprays, but would need some input on how to create them in a 1 gallon container.

Also, when foliage feeding how often should they be fed when the correct ratios have been used to create the spray??


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PostPosted: Mar 7th, '18, 06:44 
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Here's your Epsom Salts ratio for foliar spraying (375g to 20 litres)


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PostPosted: Mar 7th, '18, 07:03 
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Thanks joblow,

So if I calculated everything correctly 375g to 20 Liters would be roughly 75g per gallon? which is roughly 5.2 Tablespoons per gallon?? If that's correct my dosing is way off. I think the most I have ever used was 3 - 4 tablespoons.

Would you please double check my math?

Thanks again Joe

P.s. Would someone help me with dosing for foliar spray for potassium chloride?


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PostPosted: Mar 16th, '18, 03:43 
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Bump!!

I am not sure why no one seems to know this information, but i am sure you can understand my frustration.. I see so many ppl getting help on these forms and very little comes my way when i ask.

so, if no on here has bothered to figure out what ppms by x tank size are necessary then maybe someone has figured out the ratios between magnesium, potassium, calcium.

I am now looking for what is the correct ratio between these items with the following ingredients.

- Potassium Hydroxide
- Calcium Hydroxide
- Epsom Salt

It would be of great help if anyone that understand the ratios needed to create the correct balance.

now if you don't know it with these ingredient plz suggest the ones u use and where i can buy them, so i can get this frustration away from me. please

i am begging anyone please help me get this figured out... I have been banging my head against the wall for over 3 years now its old and tiring.


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PostPosted: Mar 16th, '18, 07:52 
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People answer questions they can. Perhaps no one is answering because most people don't know or don't care about those levels. I have never measured potassium, phosphates, calcium or magnesium levels in a system. I keep an eye out for signs of deficiencies in plants and if any of those show up I dose with seasol.. :dontknow: Good fish feed and seasol plus iron is all I have ever added to systems.

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PostPosted: Mar 16th, '18, 08:21 
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I do as EB does with the additions but there is a ratio you can start with. Your question as written asks for a specific answer to something that doesn't have one. To figure the ppms you'd also need to know how many plants, the growth rate, the type of plant and the stage of growth just for starters. The amounts in your fish food and water also matter so for various reasons no one can tell you exactly what your system will need and you will need to work out the dosing. Mr Damage worked out a ratio for dosing that works for most people but it will require you to make some adjustments based on your system - this should get you started - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24294


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PostPosted: Mar 16th, '18, 09:42 
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most cannabis growing that i have read about has all been done by hydro. Also 25g is a very small amount of water and plant can more easily strip that nurtent from the water quicker, so maybe you may need to dose more often in such a small system. I know that i had do start dosing kelp concentrate for a potassium defencie and it look about two week for me to see the damage fixed and about another two weeks to see the plant be really happy and take off again.

I have always looked at aquponics as a fat man who may not be very fast but can keep on chugging along. (i am a fat man) with hyro i have looked at as the skinny sprinter who is very calculates how fast he is going to finish his race. I am not very sure fast a crop cannabis is but the longer something takes to grow usually the slower it shows signs of change. My cilantro is always my indicator crop because it grow so quick it show defencies very fast.


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PostPosted: Mar 16th, '18, 13:02 
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scotty435 wrote:
I do as EB does with the additions

Me three!... Learn how to diagnose Fe, Ca, Mg and K deficiencies and take a reactionary approach, but check your plants regularly and react early.

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Your question as written asks for a specific answer to something that doesn't have one. To figure the ppms you'd also need to know how many plants, the growth rate, the type of plant and the stage of growth just for starters. The amounts in your fish food and water also matter so for various reasons no one can tell you exactly what your system will need and you will need to work out the dosing.

Yep!... In short, you are looking for a hydroponic solution to an aquaponic problem. Much of what works in hydroponics doesn't apply in aquaponics, especially in regards to nutrient profiles and ppm's etc. EC/ppm meters are basically useless in AP.

Example... I have a friend that owned a 4 acre hydro lettuce farm here in Perth, depending on the variety of lettuce and time of year he would run the EC at between 1.2 to 1.4 max, he'd found that at 1.6 the lettuce would start to become bitter and 1.8 he would get nutrient burn, even on just slightly warm days. I was discussing this with a customer in my shop, the aquaponic display system at the time was full of a variety of lettuce that were all perfect, including basketball sized Green and Red Oakleaf. I took a water sample and tested the EC in front of him... It was 2.8 (I was even surprised)... in a hydro system the lettuce would've been toast.

If you are going to monitor and add individual minerals you may as well change to hydro IMO. It would be much easier to achieve what you want and there would be very little difference in regards to what ends up in the plant, ie: the old aquaponics v's hydro, organic v's synthetic debate, but your plants would most likely be healthier, grow faster, and yield more.

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Mr Damage worked out a ratio for dosing that works for most people but it will require you to make some adjustments based on your system - this should get you started - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24294

Holy crap Scotty... I'd forgotten about that thread, I can't believe it's over three years old.

I will need to get on there and post an update (I thought I had already). I have changed some of the products I use for raising and buffering pH and treating deficiencies, as well as the ratios in which I use them... Have been getting excellent results for the last couple of years in regards to maintaining pH without messing up the Ca-Mg-K balance.

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PostPosted: Mar 16th, '18, 22:30 
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Hmm...

Thanks for all the replies :)

So is there a way to be more pro active about how I dose the system.

If it takes a month to recover the plants won't be able to sustain that through the flowering due to the nature of the cycle?

Here is the question that I have been resistant to accept or understand might be a better word. I believe that aquaponics is more organic than hydro is that correct?

It feels to me that commercial nutrients are more harmful than organic based on preservatives and other un-savory chemicals or is that a mis-understanding as well?


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PostPosted: Mar 17th, '18, 01:41 
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One way to be more proactive is to use indicator plants - plants that basically are early to show problems with certain deficiencies. For me, Russian Kale shows iron and potassium deficiencies before most other plants in my system show any signs. Tomatoes and peppers might be your best indicators for calcium deficiencies. You may need to switch plants during different seasons - during the summer I might use basil instead of kale for iron. Try to use plants that should be doing well at the time of year you are in - plants may indicate there is a deficiency when there isn't just because they are suffering from other environmental issues.

thawee wrote:
Here is the question that I have been resistant to accept or understand might be a better word. I believe that aquaponics is more organic than hydro is that correct?

It feels to me that commercial nutrients are more harmful than organic based on preservatives and other un-savory chemicals or is that a mis-understanding as well?


I would consider AP to be more organic or totally organic depending on how you run it but you'll get all kinds of answers on this question depending on where you ask. Plants do break down most things before they incorporate them so I can't say how much difference using the chemicals makes compared to AP or organic gardening for that matter - I'm sure someone has done studies and I'll leave it to them.


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PostPosted: Mar 17th, '18, 08:26 
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Hi,

I've done searches on the internet a while ago about this subject.
But it's pretty hard to find, most aquaponicists don't test nutrients value except nitrates...

Some most commonly values i've found :
Nitrates : 0 - 150
Ca : 40 - 70
Mg : 40 - 70
Fe : 2 - 4
K : 50 - 100
P : 10 - 40

With the following ratios :
Ca / Mg : 3/1
Ca / K : 1.5/1

But i also read :
Ca/K/Mg : 2/4/1

This can give you a general idea, but as said before, the most important is observation and learning to recognize deficiencies signs on your plants...

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PostPosted: Mar 17th, '18, 08:57 
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Thanks for everyone's help

Sebz: I found similar information, and i appreciate you re-enforcing what i found.

Would you guys mind if i posted some pics of my deficiencies. I am having a hard time nailing them down.


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PostPosted: Mar 17th, '18, 11:52 
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Hey there.. I don't want to be a bump in the road... But Aquaponics isn't hydroponics and should not be classified as the same... Aquaponics is as much hydroponics as petrol engine is to diesel engine.. they both move your vehicle but there internal dynamic are totally different. Take for instance my system EC is actually at 0.45 and everything grows like MONSTERS!!
ImageImageImage

You need to stop focusing on ratios.. trust me I have been there and done that.. but with no success.. what you need to be doing is supporting a healthy biological system in your Aquaponics to produce your nutrients.. and a good fish feed is a winner.

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