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 Post subject: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: May 8th, '18, 17:41 
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Man, that guy Rob is funny but also very clever and polite in his Youtube clip posted couple of days ago.

but its put my head in a spin. He talks about the waste coming from a fishes 'Clacka" (dang what a funny word...gotta remember that for the next polli that ticks me off. ) back on subject the waste is not what we really want but rather the ammonia coming from a fishes gills....? HUH?? I thought we were trying to eliminate ammonia,

maybe Ive been misunderstanding this whole concept....my thoughts were/are
we feed the fish, they remove waste via their clacka into our fish tanks, (in my system) this then via SLO goes into grow beds that use all this nutrient rich water to grow our plants, when the water flows through growing media all this good stuff stays in and leaves water to go into sump to be returned as clean water to fish tank.

What the stuff is this checking our PH, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites all about if we should be using ammonia to grow our plants.


Now please remember this...early last century when I was forced to attend high school my science teacher actually paid me cash to stay out of his classes. ...so please explain very simply if possible

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: May 8th, '18, 19:28 
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Yep!... Raised my eyebrows too when I saw it a couple of days ago. He makes a response video telling someone else they've got it wrong in their vid, and starts out by saying the only nutrient we're interested in with Aquaponics is the Ammonia, the rest, the solids, we filter out and throw away, on the garden etc???

Just to clarify Tonzz, we do want the Ammonia as well, but we want to see it converted to Nitrogen so the plants can use it. Plants also need a lot more than just Nitrogen though, and all those important mineral elements, ie: Phosphorus, Potassium, Calcium, Sulphur, Magnesium, and an array of trace elements, are all locked up in the "waste" he's telling everyone to throw away.

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: May 8th, '18, 19:30 
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The Ammonia is only part of the story, ammonia gives you the nitrates (via nitrification cycle) but plants need all the other macro and micro nutrients for healthy growth(phosphorus potassium, iron, etc, etc), most of these other ones come from the back end of the fish. So think of it this way, most nitrates come from the front end, everything else comes from the back end. Plants need it all to grow, fish need it all out of their tank..

Simple version.. sort of... :)

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: May 8th, '18, 19:33 
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Mr D beat me... I missed the bit about throwing the solids away, but then everyone does it different I guess, a fair few like to throw away their solids..

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: May 9th, '18, 01:11 
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I haven't seen the video yet so this is just to add some general information -

Nitrate and Ammonium (NH4+) can both be taken up by plants. Ammonia (NH3) and Ammonium (NH4+) exist in equilibrium if they are present in AP water. We try to limit the Ammonia (NH3) in AP because it is toxic to the fish. The equilibrium between Ammonia and Ammonium is affected by temperature and pH which is what this toxicity chart is about (look down the page) - http://ibcofaquaponics.com/information/tables-and-charts/. You can have a Total Ammonia Nitrogen reading (which is combined ammonia and ammonium) where it is not in the toxic zone and most of the reading comes from Ammonium (NH4+) and this can be used by plants. Different plants prefer different ratios of nitrate and ammonium and the growing conditions are important in this as well - Here is an example of some research on the subject - https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjshs1925/50/2/50_2_225/_pdf

Our AP systems need to keep Ammonia (NH3) below the toxic levels for the fish, that's the important part. Ammonium (NH4+) and nitrate are just more plant food so as long as we keep the toxicity from ammonia down for the fish, the plants take what they want and our AP systems can crank out the veggies.


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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: May 9th, '18, 05:54 
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that makes sense thanks guys. will read this over and over to train my brain.

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: Jul 27th, '18, 08:29 
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Just to clarify, at the 2 min mark I state "what we utilise mainly...."
The link below will take you to the spot itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58anRb2lrWk$t=2m0s

The clip was a response to a dodgy premise, not a fish biology or nutrient lesson. :thumbleft:

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: Jul 27th, '18, 08:44 
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Mr Damage wrote:
Yep!... Raised my eyebrows too when I saw it a couple of days ago. He makes a response video telling someone else they've got it wrong in their vid, and starts out by saying the only nutrient we're interested in with Aquaponics is the Ammonia, the rest, the solids, we filter out and throw away, on the garden etc???


Please link to the part where I say that Mr Damage?

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: Jul 27th, '18, 13:01 
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Added a broken link above. Try this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58anRb2lrWk&t=2m0s

Still trying to figure out why you misrepresented what I said about ammonia & solids Mr Damage?

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: Jul 27th, '18, 19:53 
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I'm with you Rob, I didn't hear (or read as I have "CC" turned on) anything other than you noting the importance of understanding APers deal with the ammonia comes from the gills more than what comes out the cloaca.
:laughing3:
Attachment:
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I totally get you because this is exactly what my system is designed to do; My SLO is designed to pick up as large of pieces of fish poo as possible without breaking them up and releasing more ammonia. The poo enters the RFF where it is gently separated from the water collecting on the bottom of the RFF. I've got a valve on the bottom which I use to remove the unprocessed solids from the system ASAP before any more ammonia can enter the AP. I tend to overstock for the biomedia I have, so I need to remove those solids with their trapped ammonia and let the biomedia in the system only need to deal with the ammonia in the water.
Attachment:
RobBobs-CC-Cloaca-vs-gills.png
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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: Jul 28th, '18, 13:04 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Its getting all to testicle for me

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: Aug 9th, '18, 09:06 
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Food&Fish wrote:
Its getting all to testicle for me


I don't know about testicle F&F but there certainly is a dick in here :laughing3: :think:

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 Post subject: Re: Robs latest vid
PostPosted: Aug 9th, '18, 19:29 
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I think he may have meant technical... Maybe.. I often say the same thing...

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