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PostPosted: May 4th, '10, 16:32 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I had this idea as a different method of splitting flow from one bed to the other. Its an improvement on my other one as 3 beds was the most that one could practically manage. This one can do as many as you want. And I just love anything modular so it had to be invented

As usual, sorry if someone has already invented this somewhere, and if not, I give it freely to the public domain under the GPL blah blah blah.

Picture a rotating lawn sprinkler with all but one arm trimmed and blocked.
Now turn it upside down and mount it over a bucket.
Add a drain in the bucket that goes back to a sump that can hold at least 1 grow bed's water. This is to catch the small amount of water that misses the modular units when it changes from one port to another, and to catch inevitable leekage from the rotatey bit of the sprinkler.

Attachment:
Seq ver 2 view 1 BYAP.jpg
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Now build one of these for each GB you have.

Attachment:
Seq ver 2 view 3 x-ray of 1 port BYAP.jpg
Seq ver 2 view 3 x-ray of 1 port BYAP.jpg [ 44.32 KiB | Viewed 2337 times ]



Next mount however many you need into the bucket so that each modular unit has a pipe running through its base, through the bucket and into the bottom of it's GB.

Change the lengths of the sprinkler stop hooks etc to adjust for any altitude differences your GBs may have. Keep in mind the actual size of this can be quite small as it only needs to begin to float in the last half an inch before the GB is full. The entire device could be not much bigger than a sensibly sized beer stein but I lack some SketchUp skills.

When a ports GB is empty it's hook sits at such a height as to stop the rotation of the sprinkler. Once the GB has filled to the desired height the hook is raised to allow the passage of the sprinkler to the next port.

If you make one make the hooks extra long so they can be trimmed to calibrate. ie fill your beds to the desired water then file a bit of hook off till the sprinkler moves past.

etc

some adjustment of the direction the water is travelling in as it leaves the sprinkler nozzle will be required to set its rotational speed and direction of flow so it hits the port. Nothing tricky. Basically all that you have to do is keep the nozzle much tighter to the top of the port. I couldn't make the diagram clear so added some space.

Attachment:
Seq ver 2 view 2 cutaway BYAP.jpg
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Drain each GB with a small (depending on pump flow) always open pipe to the small sump.



as a by-product of a few experiments - it turns out that if you make a spring by wrapping wire around, say, a pen - then open it up a bit and slide it onto a soft plastic hose, you can prevent it kinking. ie slide the spring to where its going to kink and it wont.

the end

-craig

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PostPosted: May 4th, '10, 17:37 
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@ BullwinkleII :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: YOU ROCK!!! :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

THAT IS ONE GOOD IDEA!!!!
We would have to figure a way to adapt this to a higher flow rate than a sprinkler can provide (clogging issues) but i am definitely going to incorporate this idea.

One question:
It looks like the height of the "Externalized flood and drain GB flow sequencer" (Efs) would have to range from between the highest and lowest GB and you "Change the lengths of the sprinkler stop hooks etc to adjust for any altitude differences your GBs may have" Can you think of any way that you can overcome this problem ? I mean like transpose the water level in the grow bed to the water level in the Efs? I hope my question is clear.

But GRATE JOB, just what i was looking for.

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PostPosted: May 4th, '10, 17:45 
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Reason being my gb are on the ground and the land is really sloped so a Efs would have to be at the lowest GB level because if it was at the highest GB level i would have to dig a rather deep hole to get to the lowest. The final height would be over 7 feet tall!!!! that is too high for my likings.

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PostPosted: May 4th, '10, 18:45 
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Caribean-grower wrote:
We would have to figure a way to adapt this to a higher flow rate than a sprinkler can provide (clogging issues) but i am definitely going to incorporate this idea.


yeah for some reason my partner wont let me play with high pressure water in the house :) Personally I'd like to install a giant cistern and matching drain in the kitchen as a one stop house cleaning solution but she is less keen :)


there are some big agricultural sprinklers out there tho. All they need is a decent pair of pliers to break off the bits that make them go pffffft pffffft pfffffft t t t t t t t t t pffffft pffffft and you have something with a 3/4 inch outlet and a rotary seal that wont leak much (not that it matters if it leaks), then all that's required is some directional tubing. Is there nothing pliers cant do? :)

Caribean-grower wrote:
One question:
It looks like the height of the "Externalized flood and drain GB flow sequencer" (Efs) would have to range from between the highest and lowest GB and you "Change the lengths of the sprinkler stop hooks etc to adjust for any altitude differences your GBs may have" Can you think of any way that you can overcome this problem ? I mean like transpose the water level in the grow bed to the water level in the Efs? I hope my question is clear.


you should be able to increase the length of the modular ports and then just add a stem between the rotation stoppers and the floats. The grooves cut into each module to stop rotation only need to be at the very top regardless of how long the tube is. So it would be possible to have say 2 modules, one 20 cm long and another 2 metres long if you simply extend the module through the return bucket... mmm ill draw it [play your own hold muzak for a minute]


just place this at the lowest point in your garden (tho this should be filed under ill conceived and not quite thought through solutions.

Attachment:
extendomatic 3000.jpg
extendomatic 3000.jpg [ 30.75 KiB | Viewed 2294 times ]


but that might not be a solution at all depending on the differences in altitude. The trimming the stop hooks was really only for the final adjustment. On my lot I have a flat space so none of this is an issue. If you have several metres difference and CHIFT PIST perhaps my other solution might be better. Look in my system thread at the bottom of my post. It also has some other solutions in there but there are many others. RupertofOz has a retail solution and do a search for "flout" (I think - someone will correct me if I'm wrong) to see another retail solution.

-craig

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PostPosted: May 4th, '10, 21:26 
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This doesn't look like anything I have seen on this site. It will obviously need a name (I will restrain myself but just note that "sprinkle" rhymes with "bullwinkle") so that we can discuss, compare and contrast with the Spider, the CueBox etc. etc.

That twisty part of your mind, the one that "saw" the sprinkler passing UNDER the Stop U Hook instead of OVER - :hello1: I wanna buy it lunch.


But I am grateful I had finished my coffee before I got to "bits that make them go pffffft pffffft pfffffft t t t t t t t t t pffffft pffffft" as there could have been quite a short but messy spray irrigating my monitor!

Carry on.

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PostPosted: May 4th, '10, 22:08 
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Yeah Bullwinkel you funny as hell.

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PostPosted: May 4th, '10, 22:42 
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Sminfiddle wrote:
This doesn't look like anything I have seen on this site. It will obviously need a name (I will restrain myself but just note that "sprinkle" rhymes with "bullwinkle") so that we can discuss, compare and contrast with the Spider, the CueBox etc. etc.

Rick


I'll go with that, anyone see a problem with "The BullwinkleSprinkle" ?

Or for that matter, BS for short ?

Are "BullwinkleSprinkle" and "BS" sufficiently maxamatized power words for marketing?

I cant help but think that our naming conventions alone are the reason why we still have to book ahead at restaurants, even tho we dine alone :-P


-craig

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PostPosted: May 4th, '10, 23:25 
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Bullwinkle,
I'm probably missing something, but if I understand you correctly:
- The sprinkler is always on, always trying to rotate.
- The "inverted-J-stops" sink as the water drains from the grow beds.
- When the J-stop sinks to a level which blocks the sprinkler, the water is directed to that grow bed tube until the J-stop rises enough to stop interfering with the sprinkler.
- The sprinkler continues again until it is stopped by the next J-stop it encounters.

It looks as though every time a grow bed level drops even a little bit the J-stop will catch the sprinkler, which will only need to raise the level the same little bit before the J-stop rises out of the way. Unless the grow bed drain rates are perfectly timed, matched, and synchronized to fill/drain in succession it seems like they would all be constantly topping off.

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PostPosted: May 5th, '10, 04:57 
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capaul1977 wrote:
... they would all be constantly topping off.
Just off the top of my head -
This may be an example of "the more the better." Meaning additional sprinkle-stops would let the next GB drain down that much further before getting Winkled, and with some golden number of tubes... complete drainage.
(And who amongst us couldn't use additional growbeds?)

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PostPosted: May 5th, '10, 06:03 
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It sounds like the hooks would need to be rather long so they would hold the spinner in place until the grow bed was full and upon reaching the full point would float high enough to let the spinner pass and get caught on the next bed hook till that one filled. The biggest trick would probably be making sure the beds can drain in the amount of time it takes the other bed/s to fill. And of course you need to make sure the hook/float can still float up easily even while the spinner is pushing against it and filling the bed.

It does seem a cool idea to be able to flood beds sequentially with a continuous running pump without needing a big flout chamber or sequencing chamber in addition to a sump tank.

I do have an indexing valve working well with my CHIFT PIST system and continuous running pump but it did require me setting up an automated low pressure valve.

I suppose it all depends on how much tinkering you want to do to get it sorted out. There are now a few different retail sequencing methods out there so I guess it depends on if you want to spend your time or your money to make sequencing work and the design/layout of the system as to what will work best.

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PostPosted: May 5th, '10, 08:44 
I'll have to re-read this later, and get my head around it a bit more... but from first reading, I see a potential for major water loss if things fail to sequence properly, and/or overflow...


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PostPosted: May 5th, '10, 08:58 
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Rupe, I think that is why the whole thing is in a containers with a drain back to the sump tank so if things foul up, at least the water will just keep cycling back to the sump tank.

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PostPosted: May 5th, '10, 13:04 
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TCLynx wrote:
It sounds like the hooks would need to be rather long so they would hold the spinner in place until the grow bed was full and upon reaching the full point would float high enough to let the spinner pass and get caught on the next bed hook till that one filled.


I had in mind that the device would be set at a height so that the floats only started to move in the last inch or so of the GB flooding.

TCLynx wrote:
The biggest trick would probably be making sure the beds can drain in the amount of time it takes the other bed/s to fill. And of course you need to make sure the hook/float can still float up easily even while the spinner is pushing against it and filling the bed.


Yeah, that first bit is always going to be something to work out with sequencing.

Adjusting the nozzle direction should make it possible to reach the desired compromise to overcome friction. The rotation stoppers would cause a lot of friction as well if they were made like that but I couldn't figure out how to attach a cylinder to another one in sketchup :) Originally I had nails in mind for the rotation stoppers.

Also there could be a problem with inverting the sprinkler as some sprinklers use water as a bearing and the setup may require gravity vrs water pressure to work as designed. There is really no need to invert the sprinkler as long as the base isn't too big or can be removed.


-craig

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PostPosted: May 5th, '10, 13:17 
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capaul1977 wrote:

It looks as though every time a grow bed level drops even a little bit the J-stop will catch the sprinkler, which will only need to raise the level the same little bit before the J-stop rises out of the way. Unless the grow bed drain rates are perfectly timed, matched, and synchronized to fill/drain in succession it seems like they would all be constantly topping off.


I had in mind that it might take 10 minutes to fill a GB and 20 minutes to drain and there might be 4 GB's but any number could be accommodated with flow rate adjustments.

The floats would be placed at a height that would mean they only come into play just as the the beds were approaching their full level. the float would rise an inch, trigger the free movement of the sprinkler allowing it to move on to the next stop. Then the floats would settle back to their minimum height set by the cuts in the tube as its ascociated GB drained.

Because there is only 1 outlet, each would be filled to the point where it allowed the sprinkler to escape, then drain before the sprinkler returned 40 minutes later.

-craig

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PostPosted: May 5th, '10, 18:05 
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Hi BullwinkleII,

very good interesting idea. I can see this setup in my 5000litre chift pist fishtank.

Instead of the one outlet to the growbeds it could be set up like a wagon wheel with fishtank in the middle surrounded by growbeds.

Well done and God bless, froggo.

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