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PostPosted: Jun 26th, '15, 17:33 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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The best value for money off the shelf BASIC control system is probably an Oxyguard Pacific at about $4k that will handle a bunch of probes and relays.

Oxygen and pH Probes are about ~$700ea. Temp are cheap pressure about $3-400 . Flow sensors and vavles are not cheap at $1000 plus for decent sizes 100mm+.

The materials quickly add up to 15 to 20k. Then there is programming, wiring and installation.

Thats basic.

nitrogen, TDSS, ammonia and other sensors are not cheap and many of them are not durable needing to be replaced every 6 to 12 months.

If you are going down this route you have to have scale pretty much because the system costs so much yet the size of the system can be huge by exactly the same control system. The only extra expense of a large system being the extra lengths of cable required.

An Oxyguard with a few DO sensors and DO backup to keep fish alive in the event of any problems can be done for under 10k but controlling nutrient flows and other stuff...be prepared to spend some dollars.

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PostPosted: Jun 26th, '15, 21:33 
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Ouch..... here i was thinking i will make do with a saltwater tank controller and a long roll of wire......... checking out the Oxyguard pacific right now also checking out the cost of probes. I think i got the basic idea down.
What do you think about this simple flow plan? does it needs adjusting?

On the actual equipment i am looking at the Pentair intelliflow pump because is has the ability to be remote control and is the only brand that i can get a warranty or even a replacement part the same day/night. not sure how efficient it is compared to aquaculture pumps, most work it should have is 5 feet head, having a little pressure in the distribution manifold is nice too as i would prefer to batch my fish in lots of smaller containers. Each loop would have at least one pump.
http://www.pentairpool.com/products/pum ... mp-452.htm

Pentair uses it in this AP farm.
http://www.tidescanada.org/wp-content/u ... ponics.pdf

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PostPosted: Jun 27th, '15, 05:13 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I've talked with the Pentair rep about this pump who was offering it as a very efficient one.

First of all its not a very efficient pump and second its not one of their most efficient pumps.

You have to work with what you have to hand or what you can get. Making decisions like this for your BYAP system is relatively simple but if its for a commercial operation, not so much. You have to do the analysis because a lot of it comes down to how you want to run your business.

For example what trade offs for risk, efficiency, economy and a bunch of factors are you prepared to make.

As to the picture you are going to monitor, evaluate and presumably adjust and control at each light bulb?

What are you monitoring, what are you controlling and how are you doing this?

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PostPosted: Jun 29th, '15, 11:39 
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Sorry about the length of time for the reply i got clipped off my bike and have 10 stitches in my left palm and a bruised knee, nothing major thankfully.

Trade offs as you know require lots of information and the more info i have the better decisions i can make, there is a pentair distributor here so their gear is the most accessible to me, not that its the only option, or does not make them a final choice, but it's a "pull" factor.

My next system is not so much a commercial enterprise, it's a one man show, just me working 7 till 2, monday to friday. so the design is as such.

As for the picture, what water quality parameters are economical to monitor and/or "adjust" aren't decided, this is the part i need most help with. My thinking is to design each loop to have a set water volume and transfer amounts of water between the loops to adjust water quality parameters. The water volume ratio is fish tank:100, filtration:25, irrigation:35. The other form of adjusting would be by varying the flow rate through the respective loop.

Testing for PH, KH, DO, NO2, NO3 and TSS would be ideal. HOW to use the information to my advantage and how to physically do it is what i want to know, assuming the idea even has merit.


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PostPosted: Jul 1st, '15, 03:51 
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I am noticing most of this info i will have to get myself as it will be unique to my system. So i should ask more general questions. like

How do i mount the probes? do you put them a particular place in the tank close to intake or exit bottom or top? or do i put them into the pipe work? do they hing over the side or do i create a special place for them?


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PostPosted: Jul 1st, '15, 14:21 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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It depends.

So many variables. Your system design being one of them, choice of type of probe, measurement point, responsiveness required and stacks, stacks more.

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PostPosted: Jul 2nd, '15, 00:22 
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well lets talk about measurement points and responsive requirements.

This is a more detailed image of the proposed farm, it is not to scale (in anyway). i just wanted to get the pumps placement highlighted. where i wanna put the probes for pump 1 is in the plant sump behind it, for pump 2, the end point of the fish filtration and for pumps 3>10 in any of the fish tanks because they will all be in parallel and should carry similar readings.

Any reasons i shouldn't put the probes in these general spots?

By "responsive requirements" i assume you meant what the system does after measurements are recorded.

Starting to see how complicated this can get. What is the general frequency of data points? should they be collected every 20mins?


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PostPosted: Jul 2nd, '15, 04:08 
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pump1: nitrate testing
pump2: ammonia testing
pumps3>10: DO testing.


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PostPosted: Jul 2nd, '15, 07:57 
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https://rik94566.wordpress.com/100-gall ... ic-system/
This guy is doing computer controlled aquaponics : links for future reading


http://www.teo.unt.edu/ret/pdf2013/Aqua ... tation.pdf
An interesting PDF on the topic


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PostPosted: Jul 5th, '15, 23:58 
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A better Flow plan


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PostPosted: Jul 6th, '15, 04:40 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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What are you using for FTs and GBs?

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PostPosted: Jul 6th, '15, 05:27 
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There is a prevailing dogma that AQ systems and hence AP systems should be run by one pump. Or if with multiple pumps all the pumps being from the one spot. There are really, really good reasons why this design principle has become so entrenched so if you are going to reject it you better have some really, really, really good reasons.

Multiple pump systems are being investigated by a number of people which include the guys at Cornell so its not a no no but why are you using 4.

In particular why do you have a pump between the DF and the Sterilization unit pumping back to the MBF?

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PostPosted: Jul 6th, '15, 08:48 
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More pumps should save considerable energy(i guesstimate upwards of 25%). The prior art is to utilise one pump at one speed calculated to run at a flow rate to support the maximum biomass in a system. The pump consumes a similar amount of energy regardless of the actual needs of a system. In my opinion total biomass and the needs of total biomass fluctuates so much that you can save energy cost by having a system that responds in real time to the needs of your biomass.

In the physical design all pumps will be relatively close to each other. All my containers are 5foot diameter (height varies from 1>6 feet depending on use) all feed lines are 3in>2in and all drain lines are 3in >4in.

The pump looping back on the MBF is to increase the total retention time of the system's water in the MBF this could also be used to wash out the solids if set to high flow. The pump that is pumping from plant sump 2 to the drum filter will be a relatively small one only having to exchange plant/fish water once a day.


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PostPosted: Jul 6th, '15, 09:11 
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Tilapia is the fish being used have a 6 month cycle so if harvest is once a month the system needs will fluctuate by 1/6 (or 16%) per month. The needs will also spike at feeding time which is 3-4 times a day, if you feed all the fish at once it requires (from memory) an increase in about 20% of the flow rate to compensate for about 1 hr after feeding, therefore you only need that extra 20% for 4 hours of a 24 hour day. Then there is seasonal temperature changes affecting the needs also i think that by the time this system approaches its 6 fish harvest you would have only used the equivalent energy for 5 traditional fish crops.


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PostPosted: Jul 6th, '15, 09:19 
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Damian wrote:
More pumps should save considerable energy(i guesstimate upwards of 25%). The prior art is to utilise one pump at one speed calculated to run at a flow rate to support the maximum biomass in a system.

That may be the way an amature system is run certainly the way many backyard systems are run. I assure you it is not the way a commercial system is run.

Quote:
The pump consumes a similar amount of energy regardless of the actual needs of a system. In my opinion total biomass and the needs of total biomass fluctuates so much that you can save energy cost by having a system that responds in real time to the needs of your biomass.

Yes you can and yes well designed systems do but that is a separate argument and design consideration. Number of pumps isn't relevant to that.

Well you could design a system where you controlled the flow by turning on or turning off pumps but it would be pretty capital intensive, have a very low resolution of control and not very good economy of scale.

Quote:
]The pump looping back on the MBF is to increase the total retention time of the system's water in the MBF this could also be used to wash out the solids if set to high flow.

Not a good idea. Many filters have backwash pumps so the idea of using a separate pump to clean a filter is pretty standard but sending water back into the MBF to go through again is just bad for so many reasons.

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