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Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=29128
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Author:  Kiara98 [ Oct 6th, '17, 23:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Mr Damage wrote:
Kiara98 wrote:
Can let you know how to reduce nitrites if you need.
Do you have another way other than partial water changes or the bacteria colony doing it?


Sure do. You can alter the temperature of the water or I have used some powders from a fish shop that reduce nitrites. Works well. Also a couple of other things that you can do.

-K98

Author:  Yavimaya [ Oct 7th, '17, 04:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

water temp changes are extremely hard to achieve in any half decent sized system.
i wouldnt use ANY fish shop chemicals if i were eating the fish......

whats a couple of other things, please?

Author:  Kiara98 [ Oct 7th, '17, 21:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Okay, so have you tried what has already been mentioned?

Perhaps you could post up some details of your system and I could offer specific advice.
Until then, just limit how much you feed your fish and keep the air flow up. This will help.

-K98

Author:  Mr Damage [ Oct 8th, '17, 13:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Kiara98 wrote:
Sure do. You can alter the temperature of the water
Please explain how this works. How does altering the water temp reduce Nitrites?

Author:  Yavimaya [ Oct 8th, '17, 16:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

it doesnt reduce it.
but i suppose like the other 2, you can align your temp and PH to make it less harmful until it is gone.
the problem is changing the temp is damn hard in most systems.

Author:  Mr Damage [ Oct 8th, '17, 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Do either of you have information relating to the effect water temp and pH has on the toxicity of Nitrite?

Author:  dlf_perth [ Oct 8th, '17, 19:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Lewis & Morris 1984 Toxicity of Nitrite to Fish: A review
Transactions of the American Fisheries Society

http://cires1.colorado.edu/limnology/pu ... Pub079.pdf

Temperature is not a direct factor but cooler temps are expected to benefit the fish due to physiological affects and the ability of cooler temperatures to better hold DO. In cases cool/cold temperatures can inhibit recovery.

Oxygen is a factor - hence regular advice around here for lots of air.
And chloride as it out-competes the nitrites at the gills.

The paper is basically a good summary. Maybe there is a more recent one as the temp outcome is not conclusive and/or suggests it is species specific.
but there is one avenue that suggests suggest cooler temps will *help the fish cope* for most species in most instances. BUT due to one study with channel catfish the relationship is not conclusive....

certainly for things like salmonoids cooler temps offer other physiological benefits as they don't like warm temps and are susceptible to many issues at higher temps.. for carp and tilapia etc ... :dontknow:

small fish are more tolerant than larger fish.... pretty good scientific summary actually.

Author:  dlf_perth [ Oct 8th, '17, 19:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

also...

KROUPOVA, MACHOVA, SVOBODOVA Nitrite influence on fish: a review 2005
Vet. Med. – Czech, 50, 2005 (11): 461–471

http://vri.cz/docs/vetmed/50-11-461.pdf

p.s. not voting either way, just pointing towards something that summarises the scientific basis as known.
Good support for aeration and salting is well supported from the science.

Personally I am surprised that pH is not better understood because it is a factor in general fish physiology and is always stated in environmental regulations/constraints for discharges affecting aquatic systems etc.
I am sure there will be info and published studies somewhere in the aquatic biology/environmental field somewhere.


re: OP's original qeustion on previous page...
>> I think I may have to back off amount of feedto my fish plus increase time between feeding, maybe two to three days, so the bacterias can have more time to convert and grow....would that be a sound practice?

Yes that will help. If goldfish? then basically you can feed as required to keep your nitrates in check.
Every few days is fine as long as you get enough nitrates etc (or supplement with Seasol etc).

Fish don't get too affected by infrequent feedings - particularly at times when something is amiss or they are a bit sick.

>> I think if you salt to 3ppt most plants are fine except strawberry, and I imagine you'd test for Nitrite and decrease salt with water changes once you're satisfied that the bacteria has caught up, could take a week or less in warm weather.

that is about it. Depending on fish you probably don't want the system sitting at higher salt levels for too long.
Water changes are really the only way to get salt out of system.

>>People here talk about Iron Chelate

Yep - try this thread or search it (comes back with many hits)
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26641
Check your prices on the Iron Chelate - some places are more expensive than others.....
I think Cheidys sell it. If you hunt around you can get it in larger amounts for lower $/kg
(problem is you don't use much as Mr damage notes).

Author:  Vonapster [ Oct 9th, '17, 12:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Hi guys
Thanks for all your input, greatly appreciated!!

Just an update with my little system:
I did a 1/3 water change and let it settle for 2 days and feed my fish (2 baby kio and 4 baby gold fish) only once just after water change. Fish tank volume is 270 litres

Did some testing today and here are the results:

Ammonia: 0.25 ppm. Nitrites: 0.25 ppm. Nitrates: 20 to 40 ppm. Ph: 8.2. Water Temp: 16 degrees C

I'm going to feed fish every third day until I can get ammonia and nitrites down to 0.

Does anyone recommend I try and get my Ph level down or shall I just add supplements as it is a very young system?

Here is a photo of my herbs which aren't doing to well (Parsley,Coriander and Basil). Any advice on what deficiencies are occurring? I have place one cap full (10mls) of seasol today. Does that harm the fish in any way?

Attachment:
IMG_79.jpg
IMG_79.jpg [ 286.58 KiB | Viewed 4911 times ]


Look forward to your comments!

Author:  Yavimaya [ Oct 9th, '17, 17:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

what you are doing is good.
can add a small amount of chelated iron to a new system too.
the PH should come down with time.

Author:  Brian [ Oct 9th, '17, 17:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Yep, your plan sounds solid. Patience, worry about the supplements once you have the ammonia and nitrite under control.
Don't stress about the PH. In 12 months you will be looking to buffer to hold it up

Author:  Vonapster [ Oct 10th, '17, 10:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Cool thanks again guys!!

Author:  dlf_perth [ Oct 10th, '17, 20:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

re: seasol - just get a small watering can and water it directly onto plants and grow bed media.
Then water in another small can of fishbtank water to lightly flush the seasol into the roots.
Plants will get more immediate benefit and it tends to keep the seasol at the plant root media.
Also while young a regular watering with fish tank water can help as well.

you can also foliar feed with diluted seasol and a small spray bottle.

Author:  Vonapster [ Oct 11th, '17, 11:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Great advice Darren Thanks, I’ll try that in future

Author:  Mr Damage [ Oct 11th, '17, 12:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Ph level vs Nitate intake by plants

Sorry Mike, I haven’t been keeping up to speed with the forum in the last few days. Some of the other members have answered some of your questions, so my replies might overlap a bit.

Vonapster wrote:
I do have both bacteria colonies established but I'm not sure the amount or size of the two colonies in the system. I think I may have to back off amount of feed to my fish plus increase time between feeding, maybe two to three days, so the bacterias can have more time to convert and grow....would that be a sound practice?
Yep!

Quote:
If you conduct a salt treatment for a nitrite spike, how long do wait until you need to do a partial water change or do you just leave the salt cycle through the system?
You would only salt to 1gm/Ltr for a Nitrite spike, the plants will handle that standing on their heads, in fact, there have been occasions where I've seen improvements in plant growth in established systems after salting to 1gm/Ltr. The salt level will dissipate with time, the plants use it up. I think it was FishFood that posted here, or maybe over on the Practical Aquaponics forum, about salting his system to a certain level, testing it with a refractometer, and over a few months the salt dissipated entirely.

Quote:
Considering I have nitrates present I think I have a nutrient deficiency with my plants. I'm using Perth scheme water coz I don't have access to bore or rain water so my water is at 8.2 PH
I suspect the deficiency is Iron...would that be a fair assumption?
Quote:
Any advice on what deficiencies are occurring? I have place one cap full (10mls) of seasol today. Does that harm the fish in any way?
Your plants don't appear to be showing symptoms of Iron deficiency, which would be showing in the newest growth. It actually appears as though it may be a Potassium deficiency if anything. Two or three capfuls of Seasol in that sized system would add a decent amount of Potassium and some trace elements. It won’t harm the fish, but I’d add it at one capful per day, just to avoid too big of an Ammonia spike.

Quote:
Does anyone recommend I try and get my Ph level down or shall I just add supplements as it is a very young system?
I wouldn't worry about pH at this point. I've had a small barrel system sit a pH of 8.0+ for about two years before it started to drop and achieved good plant growth.

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