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Struggling AP newbi
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Author:  kimb0 [ Dec 6th, '17, 01:22 ]
Post subject:  Struggling AP newbi

Guys i need help please

I have an IBC system running for two month today, the fish seem happy (12 gold fish from 20cm to 5cm "sorry dont do the inch thing here")

Water test are good, but my PH is high, in the morning it is about 8 and in the afternoon 7.7. It looks brown but i presume it is from the algae on the side, the water itself are clean

Is the system still to new?

Also the plant dont seem happy, i am not sure why, i am including some pics, please help me

Hope the files show

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Author:  dstjohn99 [ Dec 6th, '17, 01:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Put something around the fishtank for shade. The sunlight will stimulate algae growth and that can affect the pH and dissolved oxygen from morning to night. If the system is only 2 months old you may not have enough biological activity to provide the nutrients for the plants yet. Is the system cycled completely? Did you cycle with fish or without?

Test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. What is the current temperature? What do you feed them and how often?

You might improve things by adding some Maxcrop or Seasol product to provide some nutrients for the plants, but this could spike ammonia and nitrite too which will be bad for the fish.

Your best friends: Time and patience.

Author:  kimb0 [ Dec 6th, '17, 01:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

dstjohn99 wrote:
Put something around the fishtank for shade. The sunlight will stimulate algae growth and that can affect the pH and dissolved oxygen from morning to night. If the system is only 2 months old you may not have enough biological activity to provide the nutrients for the plants yet. Is the system cycled completely? Did you cycle with fish or without?

Test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. What is the current temperature? What do you feed them and how often?

You might improve things by adding some Maxcrop or Seasol product to provide some nutrients for the plants, but this could spike ammonia and nitrite too which will be bad for the fish.

Your best friends: Time and patience.


Hi

Thank you, at the moment it is night here so i will update in the AM

Author:  GurkanYeniceri [ Dec 6th, '17, 07:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Growing beans in the first 6 months of a new AP system is not good as they require more nutrients and your grow beds haven't accumulated those yet. Plus legumes like beans mostly acquire nitrogen from air and if they have nitrogen available in the roots, they will be stunted and not grow well. For that reason, I don't like to grow nitrogen fixers in my system.

Try things like chard, lettuce, basil, spinach etc. things with large green leaves so that their sun utilization is better than a bean and they can suck up the nitrates from the water.

Author:  Terra [ Dec 6th, '17, 08:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Yes do something to stop the light getting in your tank through the sides and you will need a lid for your tank the fish only need a little bit of light .

Also screen the light on the sides of your growbeds , easiest option post build is Paint , also pallet timber can cover the outsides and looks nice .

The algae will rob most of your nutrients so it must be dealt with

What are you feeding your fish (goldfish flakes have very little to offer your plants)

Hi quality aquaculture feed will provide a lot more for building your nutrient base , however goldfish can get into trouble on this feed .

I describe Aquaponics a bit like building a vegetable patch in a gravel driveway it takes time to build a fully functional nutrient base

So yes patience and time are your friend and the one often missed is Experience if you start tipping stuff in your system you will end up like the dog that chases its tail , too much of one can lockup another , so gently goes and WAIT for new leaves to appear so you can read the reaction to what you have done .

If your going to use goldfish long term (very good fish for learning with , tough and forgiving) you will likely have to supplement your system to grow healthy plants , the common nutrients missing in start up systems are iron / potassium / magnesium / calcium .

Getting the balance right between fish load and plant type / numbers is the biggest challenge , Nitrate can easily spiral out of control .

Ive built enough systems from scratch now , I can generally get them sorted fairly quickly having said that I still have plenty of head scratching moments.

This is one part I like the challenge of building on slopes , working out the best shelter / light options , using what we have lying around , and working out whats going wrong its all good .

Short term
As above , tip a bit of seaweed based liquid "fertilizer" for want of a better term
Foliar spray your plants with "Iron Chelate" to help with iron lockout due to the high Ph
Deal with the Light / Algae issue
Grow leafy greens because they are easier (success builds confidence)
Fruiting crops need more complex nutrients

Long Term
Manage your Ph keep it about the unhappy middle of the road say 6.5 / 6.8 Ph
Manage your Nitrate levels (plant / fish load)
Use quality feed to provide nutrients for your plants use minimal supplements as required
Research what you want to grow and adjust nutrients to suit

Most important
Have Fun cheers

Author:  kimb0 [ Dec 6th, '17, 16:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Thank you for all the good advice, it is raining here so i can not get all the tests done at the moment, but thank you very much

I have a 80% shade cloth around the fish tank will double it up to block out the light complete

Terra: I will get rid of the Bean for now, i also have tomatoes in there must i rather get that out for now as well and just do the leafy greens at start?

Author:  Terra [ Dec 6th, '17, 18:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

I would leave your tomatoes in , just don't be disappointed with how they go .

You don't have many fish

Do you have a Nitrate reading

Author:  kimb0 [ Dec 6th, '17, 18:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Terra wrote:
I would leave your tomatoes in , just don't be disappointed with how they go .

You don't have many fish

Do you have a Nitrate reading


Hi

lol i thought i might be to much for a new system, will look at getting some more

It just stopped raining so i can do some tests

I did check the tap water and its PH is 8.3

I will post the other test results later

Here is a pic of the feed, it is small pellets i got with the fish, presume it is koi/gold fish pellets

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Author:  kimb0 [ Dec 6th, '17, 19:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

OK

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 0.5

Water temp
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Author:  scotty435 [ Dec 7th, '17, 03:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Terra mentioned one thing that is definitely needed and that is iron. I can tell that the new leaves are too light and have interveinal chlorosis which in new leaves is usually caused by either a shortage of iron or iron lockout. If you plan to add iron to the water you should probably see if you can get Fe-EDDHA since it works at high pH. Depending on what you find for the system pH Fe-DTPA might also work. You can also spray apply an iron solution and avoid the pH lockout issues you might get in the system water.

Author:  kimb0 [ Dec 7th, '17, 16:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Thank you for all the help, i bought some Fe-EDDHA and will update in the future

Author:  kimb0 [ Mar 12th, '18, 18:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Hi.

And again i need help, well still need some help please. For some reason my plant are not growing, i just have Kale and Lettuce in for now First i thought it my be the afternoon sun killing them, so i put up some shade cloth to block out most of the afternoon sun, then the plant started to get leggy, so i bought a 50watt LED flood light just to see if it is a light thing, the looked better in the mornings but as soon as the afternoon sun hits then, even through the shade cloth the just give up and lay down

I added some more fish to the system, bought ten koi fry that is about 6cm long now, also changed the feed to http://www.threeriversaquatic.co.za/index.php/koi-shop/69/7/koi/koi-food/shogun-5kg-detail

I took the external filer of (i read somewhere that you dont filter the water) but then the ammonia goes sky high so i put it back, after the vid from Rob yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtMZRM3a5Fsi felt better about it being there

Water at the moment:
Ammonia: almost clear, to little to read
Nitrite: Almost clear
Nitrate: 80 ppm
Temp: 22 Degrees Celsius
PH: 6.8

I added some water plants to the filter just to keep the nitrates in check until i can get the plants to grow,

I supplemented with Fe-EDDHA t, leafs are still light in color but no veins showing

I attached some photos so you can see what i am doing

Please help

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Author:  danny [ Mar 12th, '18, 19:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

Hey, not sure exactly what is the matter with the plants, but what you say about ammonia sky-rocketing when you remove the sponge is definitely not right. Its not to say that the sponge must necessarily be used or not; it should work both ways, it just affects where the solids will end up. But the bio-filtration (conversion of ammonia to nitrate) is done by bacteria which should have colonised your media as well as the sponge.

Where did you get the sponge? From an already cycled system or fish-tank?.. Maybe you could try placing it at the inlet into the grow bed so it is in contact with media, and the bacteria might spread quicker?

How does your grow-bed work? Is it flood and drain? With siphons? Constant flood?

Author:  kimb0 [ Mar 12th, '18, 21:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

danny wrote:
Hey, not sure exactly what is the matter with the plants, but what you say about ammonia sky-rocketing when you remove the sponge is definitely not right. Its not to say that the sponge must necessarily be used or not; it should work both ways, it just affects where the solids will end up. But the bio-filtration (conversion of ammonia to nitrate) is done by bacteria which should have colonised your media as well as the sponge.

Where did you get the sponge? From an already cycled system or fish-tank?.. Maybe you could try placing it at the inlet into the grow bed so it is in contact with media, and the bacteria might spread quicker?

How does your grow-bed work? Is it flood and drain? With siphons? Constant flood?


At the time i took the filter out i had bigger river rock beneath the clay, so i think that must have been it, to little filtration at the grow bed side, since then i took those rocks out and filled it with 15mm crusher rocks.

The system is with a siphon, fills in 4:30 and drains in 3 min

Edit: The sponge is from this system, i am very sure it is cycled

Author:  kimb0 [ Mar 14th, '18, 14:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Struggling AP newbi

please i need some help

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