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 Post subject: Pond in a green house
PostPosted: Feb 22nd, '14, 03:26 
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Hallo guys.

New to the forum, but I´ve to try an idea. Being a Koi-ponder I would like to convert my greenhouse into an Aquaponic-system. Tired of carrying dirt in and out, virus and watering-system.

So here is my plan; 3200G pond with Koi as heart, airlifts taking care of the water- transportation, a vortex to separate the heavy stuff, moving bed bio-filters with Kaldness and air, stainless steel micro screen, channels with rafts for plants, air-hoses under the rafts to avoid root rot. The filters and most of the beds will be covered with stone and concrete slabs. The whole system will rest during winter, though to the harsh weather. Just cover the pond with Styrofoam and some air underneath.

What do you think? Just darned stupid or???

Questions: If I have to add potassium, iron or magnesia, how do the koi react?

How much will heat influence my system? During summer I´ll have 95F inside the house!

How do you cool a Aquaponic-system beside the normal ways with big windows, doors, agro shade and fans? An extra 6" pipe underneath the greenhouse, which you can open when need cooling?

Just give me some good advice. Usually I´ve sweet pepper, chilli, tomatoes, cucumbers, iceberg, etc. Grapes, peaches, apricots are there all the time as trees.

Elias


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PostPosted: Feb 22nd, '14, 15:58 
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Welcome Elias,

Looks like an interesting idea. I'm not sure I understand about covering the filters and most of the beds with stone. Do you mean that the plant beds will be aggregate for growing plants?

The basic idea looks like it will work contingent on my understanding the stone bit of course. If the plant beds are to be aggregate you probably wouldn't need the large filters since the aggregate would serve as a bio-filter but it depends on the number and size of the fish you have.

Elias wrote:
If I have to add potassium, iron or magnesia, how do the koi react?


Haven't added Magnesium but I believe others have in the form of Epsom Salts. I have added Potassium and Iron and in the amounts you would need to add, the fish will be fine. There is a color change with some of the Iron products but shouldn't be an issue.

Elias wrote:
How much will heat influence my system? During summer I´ll have 95F inside the house!


Having all the water in the greenhouse will help moderate the temperature swings, I doubt you'll need anything other than this and what you already have. You might find that you'll have to start the warm weather crops slightly late because of this affect. I usually have to start plants in soil with a heat mat and transfer as things heat up but part of my systems is outside.

Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Feb 22nd, '14, 23:15 
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Thanks Scotty!
Scotty wrote -"Looks like an interesting idea. I'm not sure I understand about covering the filters and most of the beds with stone. Do you mean that the plant beds will be aggregate for growing plants?"

The filters are covered with stone and concrete slabs, making paths, so I´ll be able to walk around easily to take care of the plants. The deep-water-beds have slabs here and there. Even the pond will have a sort of "bridge" to create a path along the side of the greenhouse.

Scotty wrote -"Haven't added Magnesium but I believe others have in the form of Epsom Salts. I have added Potassium and Iron and in the amounts you would need to add, the fish will be fine. There is a color change with some of the Iron products but shouldn't be an issue."

Koi loves very soft water. In the areas in Japan where we get our Koi from, the TDS is around 40- 100 ppm. If they grow something it´s rice. We measure the softness in TDS, Totally Dissolved Solids. Some measure it in dH, mostly calcium and magnesium ions. You have to have some of them minerals to maintain a stable pH. Wonder if Koi like extra iron and potassium?
I have freinds with a RO-water system to help the Koi to grow really fast. They mix the RO-water with well-water of good quality, to get as low TDS as possibly, but stay on top of the pH
Maybe it´s a inverse relationship between Koi and Aquaponics? Better with perch, rainbow, trout or pike?
Is there any problems to grow tomatoes and cucumbers in a raft system?
The plant needs a lot of oxygen. Anyone tried ozon?
Elias


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PostPosted: Feb 23rd, '14, 11:18 
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Hi Elias :wave:

Ok, so it sounds like you're going to be using DWC for the plants and you will have places with slabs across the DWC to make it easier to move around the greenhouse.

Might want to think about where you are going to move the slabs if you need to clean the filters?

I know we have people here growing Koi so they should do fine. Search feature here may not be working yet (it's been down the last time I checked) but you can google the info.

Growing Tomatoes and Cucumbers in DWC is possible but it's easier for most people to do this in aggregate beds. No reason you can't make it work though, others have. Check out Ryan's system for some inspiration - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12589


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PostPosted: Jul 9th, '15, 01:05 
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Here we go. The green house is upside down these days. Started with the drainage system witch ends in a big hole filled with rocks and pebbles. Have a bottom valve so I can empty and clean the pond.
Question: How deep do I have to mold the channels? 10" or moore?
What kind of aeration would you guys build in the channels? My thinking is air hoses at the bottom, every 20-25" or a long one in the middle of the channels hole length.

Elias


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PostPosted: Jul 9th, '15, 03:40 
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Others have asked the depth of DWC channels before you - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19691. Just from that thread you can tell there are lots of answers. It's a really tough question in some ways -

What you want
1. Enough nutrients for all the plants in the channel
2. Enough air for all the plants in the channel
3. Enough water to reduce large daily fluctuation in water and greenhouse temperature.
4. Not so much water that it doesn't warm up enough for warm weather plants - getting 1 and 3 to work with this one is pretty tough.

Tomatoes are heavy feeders and have pretty big root systems, you might consider setting them up in some sort of wicking system using the channels as the water supply for the wicks. This will also let the tomatoes warm up faster and begin producing sooner and your channels won't have to be as deep. Without the tomatoes (and possibly a couple other types of plants) 10 inches would work but I think I'd make them 12" deep, just in case, and deeper if the tomatoes and large rooted plants go directly into the DWC. A wicking system would also benefit your peppers and other warm weather crops because of the faster warming in Spring (You'd have to deal with some media for these :support: ).

If you can find the Univ. of the Virgin Islands info that's what I'd use for aeration and flow rate. Some of the people here that have been to the UVI course could probably steer you right on this.

This newsletter (#33) from Friendly Aquaponics has some information on sizing the aeration and flow for a DWC system along with an example - http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/527375/4749f72c54/1451002247/306429ea53/. They use 10" deep troughs and 1.5cfm of air per 100 lineal feet of 4 foot wide trough if I read their info correctly.

I kind of liked the way Ryan did his aeration for his backyard system - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8754&hilit=ryan but there are more recent examples of DWC systems if you look around.

Friendly's also mention a minimum water flow of 5 GPM through each trough circuit. I've seen other reliable sources that recommend turning over the trough between once per hour and once every four hours. I haven't looked to see how these recommendations compare. Flow rate through your airlift could factor into the trough depth so you should consider this now if you can, as opposed to later.


Cheers, Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Jul 9th, '15, 05:07 
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we live at ~7000 ft (~2133m) and it often goes down to -20F or 28C in the Winter here, so I've created an earth-sheltered (in ground) greenhouse to help moderate the temperatures. Our greenhouse pond is six feet (1.8 meters) deep, dug into the floor of the greenhouse. Image
We'll be growing trout so it needs to stay cooler than for Tilapia for example. We also bought some Koi, but they'll be in a different pond, setting on the lowest floor of the greenhouse. You know what temperature they like better than me. I've read Koi like ~ 65F (19C) to 72F (22C) so I'll get them out of the 55 gallon (208 liter) aquarium they are in now. Image Also I've added woven reed cover over the plastic panels on the roof Image
I can't wait to see how a like minded member's system turns out

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Jul 10th, '15, 15:40 
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Thanks a lot Scotty. Just what I needed. My fishtank/pond system will have around 3200G, 5 feet deep and push all that water through the system within an hour. The airlifts are really energy efficient.
Boss, I´ve the same kind of temperature here in Sweden. Easier to control that temperature in a greenhouse.
Thanks. The digging will continue.
Yours Elias :-)


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PostPosted: Jul 10th, '15, 22:04 
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The digging will continue.
fun fun fun

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Jul 11th, '15, 00:56 
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FYI - I corrected my post above to now read 4 foot wide instead of 4" wide on the info from Friendly's.


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PostPosted: Jul 17th, '15, 22:01 
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How's it coming Elias?

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Jul 23rd, '15, 16:53 
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Digging digging. I´ve named my little project: The Natural Gym. Other people go to the gym, I´ve my greenhouse. Protein drinks and a showel. I´ll start to dig the actual pond today. All the "levels are where they should be and the "valvebox" almost done.


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PostPosted: Jul 23rd, '15, 17:09 
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Questions: If I have to add potassium, iron or magnesia, how do the koi react?
Quote:

I have several Koi with a couple up around the 10 inch mark,some goldfish and a couple of plain carp, with the levels we dose at it has no visible adverse effect on them.

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PostPosted: Jul 25th, '15, 20:10 
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Here´s the Natural Gym. Moving dirt. Half done.


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PostPosted: Jul 26th, '15, 00:15 
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Natural gym. I like that. I'll have to call it that when we move 6-7 tons of flag stone around...Like we did this week. Maybe it won't seem so much like work. :D

System looks like it's going to be very cool Elias. Can't wait see it completed.


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