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PostPosted: Sep 2nd, '12, 20:00 
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told ya, he's a god!! :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Sep 2nd, '12, 20:30 
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dam straight Deano, I will be all ears from here on in..... :lol:


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PostPosted: Sep 3rd, '12, 12:18 
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todays water test. Had a floater this morning. Little one from the first batch. He had bugger all tail left and was very pail in colour in the tail. Was almost half albino..

High Range PH- 8.4 Holy hell
Ph Level- 7.2
Ammonia - 1
Nitrite had gone back to 0

I think in my past post, where someone has commented, I need to add shell grit to lower the PH..?

Water temp is at 16.1 and stable.

Nitrites have disappeared.. How does this happen?


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PostPosted: Sep 3rd, '12, 17:10 
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Coastal179 wrote:
High Range PH- 8.4 Holy hell
Ph Level- 7.2
Ammonia - 1
Nitrite had gone back to 0

Huh? What is the pH? If you test on the low range pH and the colour is really dark i.e. higher than 7.6 then you test again using the high range solution. If you originally test with the high range solution and the colour is lighter than the minimum 7.4 then you test again using the low range test solution. You cannot have pH simultaneously being 8.4 and 7.2!

Coastal179 wrote:
Nitrites have disappeared.. How does this happen?

This is what we want to happen. Ammonia is converted to nitrites, nitrites are converted to nitrates, nitrates are taken up by the plants. Minor variations occur from time to time along the way, as do errors in measurement. Cest la vie. So long as you have the fish being fed and creating ammonia (within safe bounds of TAN limits, dependent on pH and temperature) the nitrification process will occur, eventually. Start daily monitoring for nitrates; keep good records as they will help you identify when your system has fully cycled and what your "equilibrium" or "normal" levels are.

Coastal179 wrote:
I think in my past post, where someone has commented, I need to add shell grit to lower the PH..?

The pH will fall as the nitrification process gets underway. Although some people attempt to fiddle with the pH at this stage, IMHO it's best to let nature take its course and wait until the system has completely cycled and found its equilibrium before even considering manually altering pH. That being said however, because we know nitrification is an "acidic process" we can prepare for sudden drops in pH by adding a buffer material which will dissolve in low pH but not in higher pH, hence its use as a buffer. (Sudden "anything" or any rapid changes in the system can have devastating consequences so we try to smooth out change over a longer period). Shell grit (calcium carbonate) is a good choice, just a cup or two per 1000L kept in the system, ready to dissolve should the pH drop. Pure limestone (calcium carbonate, just in another form) is another good choice, but be careful not to use the reconstituted stuff which could contain other materials which may have unwanted effects. Crushed shell grit is about $5 per 5kg from CityFarmers and will last you a long while.

Coastal179 wrote:
Had a floater this morning. Little one from the first batch. He had bugger all tail left and was very pail in colour in the tail. Was almost half albino..

Was the tail missing due to predation from the new bigger fish? Or, could it be fin-rot?

If the first, then there's not much which can be done unless you can physically separate the fish until they are all about the same size.

If the latter, then increase the salinity to about 3ppt (3kg per 1000L of system water) and watch all the other fish carefully for signs of the disease. Clean any filters and make sure your system is immaculately clean of any uneaten food and fish poo. Don't scrub any bio-slime which may already be growing on the side of the FT, they're good guys and we need to encourage their habitation.


Scott

P.S. Pail = bucket. Pale = lacking intensity of colour :)

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PostPosted: Sep 3rd, '12, 17:25 
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Your system looks great. Well done. Looks loike you have room to expand, it will happen.
I also have an IBC system and I have placed 75% shade cloth around the FT as the trout seem to like the dark aorund them and not a lot of light coming through the IBC liner wall.
Well done and welcome to the forum.


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PostPosted: Sep 3rd, '12, 17:55 
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The Ph is 7.2..

But when I did the Ph High Range it was 8.4......

How is this so?


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PostPosted: Sep 3rd, '12, 19:19 
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I think your ph is 8.4. It is higher than the scale on the normal ph test hence you need to do the high ph reading. 8.4 is normal for a new system

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PostPosted: Sep 3rd, '12, 21:32 
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Cheers bender.

I did mention I am an absolute spastic when it comes to this...


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PostPosted: Sep 4th, '12, 10:56 
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More dead fish....

Its stormyas all buggery at the moment, is that going to effect the fish at all.. Bloody trout, they are fussy little buggers hey.

Water test. I think I need to change a 1/4 of the water and refresh the salt. The rest of the fish look fine...

Ammonia- 1
PH - 8
Nitrites- 0.

Feeding only twice a day, very little amounts. water temp is sitting at 14.6 degrees, mind you it's bloody freezing out today..

There is no remaining feed being left on the surface or on the bottom of the tank...

This is really starting to bother me, with all of the deaths I am having. It is clearly not the fish, it is something I am doing..

Im going to brave the storm and get rid of some of this water. I am trying to gather as much as i can that is falling from the sky... Could only be benificial.


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PostPosted: Sep 4th, '12, 10:58 
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The little one died yesterday, notice the light coloured tail, the other two dark ones I awoke to this morning and the light coloured one is the most recent.


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PostPosted: Sep 4th, '12, 16:51 
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With ammonia at 1, pH8 and temp 14, TAN is probably not the issue. Nitrites 0, so they're not the issue.

What is your pumping regime (volume and time)? How much air have you got? How do your fish behave when they are in the FT? Do they swim upside down? Gulp for air near the surface? Where did you get your fish? (Both batches)

Coastal179 wrote:
I am trying to gather as much as i can that is falling from the sky... Could only be benificial.

Remember the water falling as rain doesn't have any salt in it, so you'll have to add some to maintain your salinity at current levels.

How are you catching the rainwater? Run off from roofs and sheds can be contaminated with pollutants, so be very careful what you allow to enter your system. Even run-off from clean roofs made from galvanised tin can carry zinc and other heavy metals into your closed-loop system and poison fish.

Maybe you should start considering you have a disease in your system? I'd certainly be contacting someone about that small fish. Maybe Fisheries Dept, Fremantle TAFE or Gavin (Troutman) might know what causes that issue? Until you get confirmation, I suggest increasing the salinity to maybe 3-5ppt; definitely aerate as much as possible and continuous pumping, lightly feed once per day.

Do a very careful examination (necropsy) of one of the fish (not the albino-little'un as it may be required later?) looking for discolouration, blotches, sores, spots, check all the fins etc. Look inside the gills, they should be rosy and clean. If the outside of the fish is good, cut open the cavity and look at the innards; check the organs for anything which doesn't look "right". Open the gut and see the feed/digestive products; do they look "normal" for what a fish might poop out later (if it were still alive) or are they green, slimy and stinky?

Sometimes a fish just dies for no apparent cause. Very rarely, two fish die from no apparent cause; but four fish dying very close in time, there has to be a cause, we just need to figure it out.

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PostPosted: Sep 4th, '12, 17:35 
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Pump is on constant flood and drain, 3000lt/Hr BYAP supply, ( :headbang: ) it seems to be pumping fairly well.

I have an aqua 12000 precision air pump with 4 outlets, with an air stone on each one. looks like there is plenty of air.

I have purchased a 170Lt/minute electromagnetic BOYU off ebay. Its on its way.

I haven't actually got any rain water traps, I am just wanting to try and take advantage of this crapola weather....

I do understand that the collection of rain water is not necessary.

The fish are swimming around all over the tank, from top to bottom, only breaking the surface if they are feeding. They are viscious little critters. They look happier in my FT than they did in the FT at Golden Ponds.

How do I put a video up. I will take some footage and give you a better idea..

Cheers Bunson :notworthy:
Golden Ponds Baldivas, was were I purchased both stocks from.

I've put the little guys in the freezer now, is that a problem for examination purposes..?


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PostPosted: Sep 4th, '12, 17:53 
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Coastal179 wrote:
How do I put a video up. I will take some footage and give you a better idea..

Post it to YouTube, then use the youtube tags in the foum to link to your video.

Coastal179 wrote:
I've put the little guys in the freezer now, is that a problem for examination purposes..?

Makes the flesh awfully hard to cut! Maybe you've missed out on these fish?

The next time you harvest a fish (or have a fish die (hopefully not)), instead of just cleaning and gutting the fish for the frying pan/smoker, take advantage of the situation and do a little inspection to educate yourself what is "normal looking" so it's easier for you to identify "abnormal".

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PostPosted: Sep 4th, '12, 19:00 
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I will consider that for next time.

I have just gone and had another look at the fish, they are swimming all over the place. They are not just hiding near the pump or at the rear of the tank, that is not covered.

They are now swimming around where it is exposed, you walk past them and they dont disappear, they just circle like a bloody great white waiting for a feed..

The second I throw a peble of feed in, they are fighting over it........
Should they be this hungry...


I have salted to 2 ppt earlier today with a third water change..

Water is not crystal clear, but fairly clear...


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PostPosted: Sep 5th, '12, 21:02 
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Hey Matt, how's the trout now? Or have you flown back to work?? I'm back at work Friday :(

I was thinking it might be worthwhile to chuck some shadecloth/tarp over the top to give the trout some protection, mine get 'spooked' every now and then and go off their feed.

Maybe all the water changes keep freaking the fish out? Plus you're diluting whatever bacteria, nitrates & nitrites you've got in your system, and that's not a good thing if you want your system cycled? When you change the water out, do you give the water 24hrs+ to 'breathe' and off-gas the chlorine? Faye said that you have to, so it must be true. :whistle:

With the youtube videos, create an account, upload your video, it'll call it something funky (eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYAP123). Copy the funky name (ie BYAP123), then there's a youtube button above the message box. Click on that, and it comes up as [youtube ][/youtube ], and Paste the funky name between the boxes. So for us, it would be [youtube ]BYAP123[/youtube ]. Note I've put a space at the end of youtube so it comes up as text. Obviously you don't have a space at the end :-P

Give it time, if it was me personally I'd wait and keep the water you've got, particularly if it's clean and there's no excess fish food/waste in there. I'm fairly certain my system hasn't cycled fully and I started in June... :think:

Good luck, have a safe swing :support: Remember, you're living the dream....


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