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PostPosted: Dec 15th, '13, 02:44 
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JOhny5,

The cement leaches and affects ph while it is young

Tclynx,

my thought is that is ok.. When the liner fails it will be small and slow and the cement can age without affecting my ph all at once.


thoughts?


brian

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PostPosted: Dec 15th, '13, 07:40 
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That actually sounds like a good idea. You get the benefits of the ferrocement but you give it time to age.

I understand that the cement should be kept wet so do you have plans to do this with the liner system? Or do you think it might not be needed?

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PostPosted: Dec 15th, '13, 08:12 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Well if the inside of the bed is moist when the liner is installed, it is likely to stay moist since the water won't be evaporating away through the liner. You can still spray the outside easily enough. At least the cement won't rot due to the liner leaking but you may find you need to top up more water, more often if the liner is constantly seeping into the cement.

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PostPosted: Dec 15th, '13, 11:54 
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Still thinking on the liner. It makes sense, once I get my cement beds made I can see how you are going here with the liner.

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PostPosted: Jan 4th, '14, 00:00 
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Just caught up on this, but perhaps someone already asked. Aesthetics aside, why do the ferro vs IBC totes? I saw your initial cost estimate of around $300 for the 800 gallon tank. I've sourced 330 gallon IBC's here as cheap as $80, but usually around $100. Point is, I have just shy of 1000 gallons of storage for the same cost as you built 800 gallons. And I just rolled them into position like big dice and filled them up. I'm not trying to be the Devil's advocate, really just curious. I'm sure you had a very compelling reason for doing what you did, so I'd like to know.

Speaking of the big dice, for funny story, I actually did roll that dice once, down the freeway at about 70 mph! When the fat guy at the scrap yard says the tank is heavy enough you don't need straps, DON'T LISTEN! The bad part it, I had the straps in the truck and was just being lazy. The tank rode well for the first 10 miles at lower speeds, but once I hit the on ramp, the wind got it. It slid back in the bad, and rolled over the tailgate. I was VERY lucky no one was right behind me, and it tumbled to the shoulder without incident. I quickly backed up, got her loaded and fled before someone of authority could show up and cite me for being a dumb@$$! A testament to the durability of the IBC though, it was barely dented, and did not rupture. Double lucky!

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PostPosted: Jan 4th, '14, 00:10 
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In some regions it is easier to get food grade IBC's than in other places. Around here you might be able to get non food grade IBCs for between $60-$125 USD but the ones that previously held food products you are likely to have to spend more like $175 to $250 USD.

Benefits of building your own is you can build them shaped to fit your space needs while tanks and beds made out of IBC's are limited by the shape of the IBCs and remember to add in the cost of needing to protect the IBC plastic from the sun or they eventually become brittle and will crack or break and require the cost/trouble of replacing them.

I will admit that if one has a good source of IBC tanks, they are the quickest most cost effective containers out there if your design/space/fish choice works well with those size tanks.

But personally, IBCs as fish tanks are a bit too small for me growing channel catfish the way I do and round tanks flow better and grow beds I like them narrower for the most part. So I would say to anyone think about your personal goals, desires and requirements for your system design and build accordingly, just because something else might be what so and so recommends or what is cheapest, it doesn't mean it is the best or most appropriate thing for you to do.

That said, I would be curious to hear the reasons too since hearing why some one made a particular choice can help others apply critical thinking as well. :flower:

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PostPosted: Jan 4th, '14, 00:41 
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tdbrueggen wrote:
I've sourced 330 gallon IBC's here as cheap as $80, but usually around $100.

Bragger! :geek: Just messing with you, that is a awesome price :headbang: . IBCs gre great, and I use them. Sometimes I wish they were round...

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PostPosted: Jan 4th, '14, 02:44 
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Lotsof points already made but i'll go through my personal thinking

1) i expect an ibc to last about 4-5 years and a wood grow bed maybe 5-7 before the humidity and bugs make it unsafe and needs to be taken down. ON the other hand, I expect these ferro tanks to outlive me.
2) i like larger size tanks, more water mass to preserve temperature and be more resistant to change
3) the ability to grow larger fish. I dont believe you you would be able to grow a catfish past a couple of years in an ibc before they outgrow it.
4) the ability to shape the containers is nice.


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PostPosted: Jan 4th, '14, 05:51 
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STORY TIME!!

Ronmaggi wrote:
tdbrueggen wrote:
I've sourced 330 gallon IBC's here as cheap as $80, but usually around $100.

Bragger! :geek: Just messing with you, that is a awesome price :headbang: . IBCs gre great, and I use them. Sometimes I wish they were round...


Hah, funny really. I find all the time people asking $125 for a 225 gallon IBC, and then the same guy asking only $100 for a 330 gallon? Maybe they think the 225 gallons are more popular, I dunno. In all fairness, the one I got for $80 was not considered "food grade" but contained a non-toxic product. And Dundee would say "you could live on it, but it tastes like sh**". But the tank had been double washed with bleach water and had no residual smell. I scored the first one for $80, but going back a month later he had raised his cost to $100.

So I found another guy, who was a real tough sell. He had the 330 gallons list for $80 with a note "minimum purchase required" but did not specify a number. So I called, and he pretty much lowballed himself right away. He says "well that price would be if you bought five or more" so I ask, what if I only buy one..."well, yeah, we could do $80 there as well". SOLD!

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PostPosted: Jan 4th, '14, 06:01 
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bcotton wrote:
Lotsof points already made but i'll go through my personal thinking

1) i expect an ibc to last about 4-5 years and a wood grow bed maybe 5-7 before the humidity and bugs make it unsafe and needs to be taken down. ON the other hand, I expect these ferro tanks to outlive me.
2) i like larger size tanks, more water mass to preserve temperature and be more resistant to change
3) the ability to grow larger fish. I dont believe you you would be able to grow a catfish past a couple of years in an ibc before they outgrow it.
4) the ability to shape the containers is nice.


brian



I guess I hadn't really thought about the longevity of the IBC totes. I guess I just assumed they were UV stabilized. Perhaps wrapping them in black plastic, or painting would help. I see folks do this for rainwater storage to prevent algae growth, although I have not wrapped mine and going on two years have not had any significant algae in them. I suppose once I get moved to my farm and out of the burbs, maybe I'll see about casting some concrete tanks in place, but I'm not about to put that headstone in the back yard to even think about moving it later. I don't think the new owners would want it.

Larger volume is always better for the thermal mass. On that note, how about building a bank of tanks that is two tanks wide (accessible from both sides) and as long as you wish. Then build a box around it all and fill the space in between with sand or dirt? It would be lot to fill in, but the insualing effects of soil is hard to beat, and the price is a good feature two. Heck, for those that bury their tanks anyway, just dig half as deep and use the removed soil to fill the gaps above. Who knows though, the labor involved may have been just as well spent building a ferro tank!

I already admitted to bcotton on a seperate thread that I too am building some of my own tanks. They will be wood+liner and be about 10' long to allow a good amount of run room. Now in my case I'm planning on subdividing as needed, so the run room is broken by a screen, but for someone raising something more active like bass or catfish, a long skinny tank could be good.

At the end of the day, we all find what works for best. Look for my ferro tank thread in the future...jk!

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PostPosted: Jan 15th, '14, 21:55 
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I've been thinking of building a 1900 gallon tank out of lumber and a liner:

Attachment:
OctagonalTank.jpg
OctagonalTank.jpg [ 83.5 KiB | Viewed 1364 times ]

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PostPosted: Jan 15th, '14, 22:03 
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Nice,

I will have new pictures soon, it was a nice 70 degree weekend so i finally put the last fero coat on the grow bed and i plan to paint it this weekend weather permitting.

I have switched gears based on LoveintheApocalypse build, I will paint the grow bed with the same drylock latex based paint.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19607


it seems like a cost effective option. and again, if it fails, hopefully it just fails slowly like the pond liner would have.


brian

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PostPosted: Jan 15th, '14, 22:06 
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Thinking about...or just doodling in google sketch up! That sure does look cool on paper, hope you can make it work for real. What are the dimensions?

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PostPosted: Jan 15th, '14, 22:22 
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tdbrueggen wrote:
Thinking about...or just doodling in google sketch up! That sure does look cool on paper, hope you can make it work for real. What are the dimensions?


Well, the house is up for sale and we're searching for a new one with some acreage, so I'm hoping to build it soon. I designed it around 4' x 4' plywood sheets for the sides. It fits within a 12' diameter circle and is a little over 10-1/2' across the sides. It's 4'-9" tall providing for a capacity of around 1900 gallons. The studs are 2x6, which should support the load of the water on the sides of the tank.

The plan is to take a lesson from aquaculture tank design and use dual drains. An overflow at the side and a center floor drain. Water will be introduced radially to make the tank swirl and settle solids to the bottom drain essentially creating a big swirl filter. The bottom drain will support 25% of the flow and pass through a secondary radial flow filter before meeting with the overflow/skimmer and going to some sort of media filter.

My ultimate goal is to build something similar to the UVI system and make 4 of these . . .

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PostPosted: Jan 16th, '14, 00:19 
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Hi Jeff, have you started a system thread NOT on Facebook yet?

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