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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 12:19 
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Damian wrote:
The idea is to have a radial flow filter with a center drain bell syphon set just above the static water level.

When the water is flowing it should constantly push solids out through the center drain.


I will interested to see that in operation, the radial flow filter is to give the solids chance to drop out of suspension.With the circular flow in a radial flow , solids migrate to the slower water in the centre so helping this process and with a conical bottom depositing these bits for easy removal. But can i ask why add a syphon ?

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 12:23 
A simple tap bottom drain is all that's required...


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 12:31 
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dasboot wrote:

The barrels aren’t quite big enough for true settlement,but if when you come in through the bottom you take a standpipe two thirds of the way up,then double elbow to push the water back down,the heavier solids cannot do the u turn back up,so will settle on the bottom. Then skim your outlet just under your water surface. Stand pipe bigger the better,i use 3inch inlet and outlet.



Sometimes it can get muddy where our AP systems are so we like to keep our can bottoms intact that way they dont sink in the mud. so we enter through the Side and use one 90 to point to water in a swirl and put the exit like 3in on top of that the filtration in between.

To get a conical bottom and a center drain with side exit I will use concret the first thing is bell syphon is not really the best term maybe SLO is better. But it only works when the water is running. If you could size this the right way the dirtest water could trical out the center drain makeing it self cleaning.


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 12:34 
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Damian wrote:
dasboot wrote:

The barrels aren’t quite big enough for true settlement,but if when you come in through the bottom you take a standpipe two thirds of the way up,then double elbow to push the water back down,the heavier solids cannot do the u turn back up,so will settle on the bottom. Then skim your outlet just under your water surface. Stand pipe bigger the better,i use 3inch inlet and outlet.



Sometimes it can get muddy where our AP systems are so we like to keep our can bottoms intact that way they dont sink in the mud. so we enter through the Side and use one 90 to point to water in a swirl and put the exit like 3in on top of that the filtration in between.

To get a conical bottom and a center drain with side exit I will use concret the first thing is bell syphon is not really the best term maybe SLO is better. But it only works when the water is running. If you could size this the right way the dirtest water could trical out the center drain makeing it self cleaning.


Ok got that,but self cleaning to where? you need to take out of the system sometime.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 12:43 
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What I am saying is if you got a big system it may be more econimical to have 15 of these connected creating a slower/dirtier water flow for preocessesing.


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 12:49 
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One benifit could be lower water usage, if you clean by emptying the drum daily that is 50galls a day to process in the 5 mins it takes to do that. If you can process at a slower rate you can get more solids out.


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 13:43 
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Damian wrote:
What I am saying is if you got a big system it may be more econimical to have 15 of these connected creating a slower/dirtier water flow for preocessesing.


No,the water speed is constant,if connected in series the heavy solids get taken out by the first barrel,depending on water speed this will determine what size of particle that gets left in suspension,this could stay in suspension all the way through the line.

The slower you get the water flow the more particles will fall out.

Conical bases only require the amount of solids in the cone plus water to clean,flat bottom requires up to half the barrel before enough solids are cleaned out.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 14:55 
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If a number of barrels were connected in parallel, the flow through each would be much slower...

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 19:54 
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The whole aim is to have a system I clean once a week.

Ronmaggi

Thank you for that insite, and you are totally correct, it makes much more cents that way because the air will destribute better when filling up allso and the water will be way slower through each can, the problem of equilisation of barrels is solved either by monifold or my favourite, Independant drains to a common slump.


Going parallel for the slump with the correct sized manifold may be the better option in this caste, my thinking is that the flow through this "sub system" ideally will be only be fast enough to lift the solids out from the bottom of the cone of the swirl filter and up over the center drain.(what's the min flow for a SLO to work?) and IMO the flow will be slow and steady just the kind of thing a manifold is good for. By manifold I mean connecting all the barrels in the slump with a 2in straight pipe.


Last edited by Damian on Nov 25th, '13, 20:03, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 19:58 
I still don't understand why you wouldn't just build a simple radial flow filter... with a simple tap drain....

http://www.earthangroup.com.au/diy-solids-filter/

http://www.earthangroup.com.au/diy-blue ... ow-filter/


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 20:07 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
I still don't understand why you wouldn't just build a simple radial flow filter... with a simple tap drain....

http://www.earthangroup.com.au/diy-solids-filter/

http://www.earthangroup.com.au/diy-blue ... ow-filter/


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The whole aim is to have a system I clean once a week.
Quote:


As Rupertofoz just said.

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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 20:24 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
I still don't understand why you wouldn't just build a simple radial flow filter... with a simple tap drain....

http://www.earthangroup.com.au/diy-solids-filter/

http://www.earthangroup.com.au/diy-blue ... ow-filter/






Thanks for the link Rupert I has the info I need at this point some were in the comments I find this post

Paul Van der Werf says: January 4, 2013 at 7:05 am

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the positive feedback.

You will need to increase the outlet pipe size or double outlet as you suggested. I have 3200 litres running though my set up per hour with 40mm inlet and outlet, however approaching 4000 litres per hour the outlet needs to be increased to at least 50mm.

I would avoid any additional media (socks) anywhere in the filter. You can use packed k1 after the radial flow to take out more solids. However I find a simple bag filter after your water pump and sump is very effective at getting the smaller micron out. Generally a 50 micron will do the job but good to have a 25 micron bag on hand. Cheap and effective.

You are looking for a loading rate maximum of 200 LPM per m2 (5gpm per ft2) and a retention time in the filter vessel of 30 seconds. The loading can be as low as 120 LPM/M2 to adjust for the drum should you need to. The retention time can go up to 4 minutes but quicker is better.

What that means is you look at the surface diameter of the drum you plan to use. Lets say it is one of ours with a diameter of 600mm. The area of it is 0.332 m2. I multiply the 200 lpm by the area 0.332 m2 and get a surface loading rate of 66.4 lpm for the surface area.

Now I have to check the volume of the drum will provide the retention time of 30 secs.

The drum is 200 litres but we only use 180 litres of it at operating height. We divide the 180 litre capacity of the drum by the flowrate per minute 66.4 which gives us about 2.7 minutes retention time in the drum.

I am happy with this as it is within the range of 30 seconds to 4 minutes and works very well. However I have the capacity to push the water through the one I use much faster. In this case I could use a drum the same diameter and half the volume easily.


Paul Van der Werf says: January 9, 2013 at 5:39 pm

Very true Jimmy.

The fish solid wastes carry about 10% extra nitrogen and majority of the phosphorous (fish only take up about 5% of the phosphorous in feed the rest comes out their bums).

So yes it makes perfect sense to use these solids wastes throughout your garden. If you are using floating rafts, then the filters will definitely come in handy and if you are using a media bed, the filters will help extend the life between cleaning out the grow bed (this is a good example here).

Using solids filters does not mean you are wasting those great nutes, you can dilute them, make compost tea out of them and introduce them back into your system as you need them through foliar sprays or tonic solutions added to the water.

Filters simply give you a great deal more control over what happens in your system and will permit you to carry more fish.

Not to say solids filters are needed in every backyard situations, there are plenty of examples of small, lightly stocked media systems that work well enough. From my point of view, if you want to get more out of your aquaponic or integrated system in the backyard, filters are a very inexpensive and simple solution to help you achieve more productivity at home. At a commercial level, they are imperative.

Regards Paul

Hope that helps. Regards Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 20:49 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
I still don't understand why you wouldn't just build a simple radial flow filter... with a simple tap drain....

http://www.earthangroup.com.au/diy-solids-filter/

http://www.earthangroup.com.au/diy-blue ... ow-filter/


a technical description of how the radial flow settler works:

http://www.w-m-t.com/library/pdf/Radial ... epaper.pdf

The reason for me is much more simpler, its cheaper to use blue drums to do my filtering than any other option. There is all so a level of biomimicry creeping into my designs I like to push design and think out loud. Eg. If its a timed F&D why not use the same line for flood and drain. Or in these same swirl filters would coating the inner surface with a tinny long spikes aid filtration?, insperation from whales and how they fillter krill from the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 21:11 
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Are there any 0 waste systems around?


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 Post subject: Re: Damian's system.
PostPosted: Nov 25th, '13, 23:47 
How do you define "0 waste systems"


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