All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 779 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:12 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Jul 6th, '14, 20:25
Posts: 3841
Location: 2.2 kilometers up, NM, USA
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Series of particles
Location: Sapello, New Mexico USA
Almost half way through the sentence now...
Denticity refers to the number of donor groups in a single ligand that bind to a central atom in a coordination complex.[1][2] In many cases, only one atom in the ligand binds to the metal, so the denticity equals one, and the ligand is said to be monodentate (sometimes called unidentate). Ligands with more than one bonded atom are called polydentate or multidentate. The word denticity is derived from dentis, the Latin word for tooth. The ligand is thought of as biting the metal at one or more linkage points. The denticity of a ligand is described with the Greek letter κ ('kappa').[3] For example, κ6-EDTA describes an EDTA ligand that coordinates through 6 non-contiguous atoms.

Denticity is different from hapticity because hapticity refers exclusively to ligands where the coordinating atoms are contiguous. In these cases the η ('eta') notation is used.[4] Bridging ligands use the μ ('mu') notation.[5][6]
Attachment:
Hexaaquasodium-3D-balls.png
Hexaaquasodium-3D-balls.png [ 217.79 KiB | Viewed 2863 times ]

I should have thought this was obvious :laughing3:

_________________
:wave1: Brian's AP
:dontknow: I don't understand all I know about this :dontknow:
Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
    Advertisement
 
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:13 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Feb 7th, '11, 18:32
Posts: 3178
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Most of me
Location: Thailand, Chaing Rai
Cookie a question for you,my system is now decoupled,fish and plants separate but the water for the plants is fed from the fish side,on the matter of dosing I have a vortex MT tank that works well,is it pheasible to add Calcium to the vortex ? My fish system runs a high PH,the plant side I can control,my thoughts are I can add add Calcium hydroxide to the MT,a PH neutral Potassium to the plant side,my daily dosing from the MT would then add needed Calcium for the plants.Will adding a strong base,PH aside hurt the nitrifaication occurring within the MT,I was thinking that after decanting and adding the fresh poo and water to the MT I was thinking I could add a tablespoon into the MT,the rise in PH shouldn't hurt the bacteria but would a increase in cations affect the anion cation balance so locking out some nutrients..... :think:
Or is this totally wrong.

_________________
dasboot's system
Andreas Garden.
https://www.facebook.com/Andreas-Garden ... 681644511/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:18 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '13, 23:00
Posts: 1206
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
the strength if the base has less effect than the actual ph of the environment within the MT tank.. I'll say add The hydroxide only if the ph is decreasing to buffer the MT ph to arround ph7 to ph 8 any where in between that range will not affect nitrification negatively.. However in al my trials of aerobic MT tanks nitrification did occur however ph went up instead of going down.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

_________________
HAPPY GROWING.

Cookie's System
Cookie's page


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:19 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Jul 6th, '14, 20:25
Posts: 3841
Location: 2.2 kilometers up, NM, USA
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Series of particles
Location: Sapello, New Mexico USA
Oh crap, I think something may be clicking... Mineralization in soil science is decomposition or oxidation of the chemical compounds in organic matter into plant-accessible forms.[1][2] Mineralization is the opposite of immobilization.

Carbon to nitrogen ratio[edit]
Whether nitrogen is mineralized or immobilized depends on the C/N ratio of the plant residues.[3] In general plant residues entering the soil have too little nitrogen for the soil microbial population to convert all of the carbon into their cells. If the C:N ratio of the decomposing plant material is above about 30:1 the soil microbial population may take nitrogen in mineral form (e.g. nitrate). This mineral nitrogen is said to be immobilized. This may cause nitrogen deficiency in plants growing in the soil.

As carbon dioxide is released via decomposition the C:N ratio of the organic matter decreases, and the microbial demand for mineral nitrogen is decreased. When the C:N ratio falls below about 25:1 further decomposition results in simultaneous mineralization of nitrogen which is in excess to that required by the microbial population.

When decomposition is virtually complete soil mineral nitrogen will be higher than it was initially due to mineralization of the plant residue nitrogen.

_________________
:wave1: Brian's AP
:dontknow: I don't understand all I know about this :dontknow:
Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:23 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '13, 23:00
Posts: 1206
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
@dasboot I am experimenting on anaerobic MT tanks actually which is very easy to drop ph in there due to fermentation.. and hence alot easier to add Ca(OH)2 to buffer the acid formation.. and anaerobic digesters are a bit more forgiving in different ph ranges.. However in addition back into system I add the MT water bac into my aerobic inline MT tank within my system

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

_________________
HAPPY GROWING.

Cookie's System
Cookie's page


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:25 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Feb 7th, '11, 18:32
Posts: 3178
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Most of me
Location: Thailand, Chaing Rai
cookie wrote:
the strength if the base has less effect than the actual ph of the environment within the MT tank.. I'll say add The hydroxide only if the ph is decreasing to buffer the MT ph to arround ph7 to ph 8 any where in between that range will not affect nitrification negatively.. However in al my trials of aerobic MT tanks nitrification did occur however ph went up instead of going down.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk


But would the predominance of a cation within the MT upset the balance so locking out some nutrients ?

_________________
dasboot's system
Andreas Garden.
https://www.facebook.com/Andreas-Garden ... 681644511/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:26 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Jul 6th, '14, 20:25
Posts: 3841
Location: 2.2 kilometers up, NM, USA
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Series of particles
Location: Sapello, New Mexico USA
cookie wrote:
boss wrote:
Mind you, I know nothing about these mineralization tanks, so the only question I can think of is: How is it possible to get calcium instead of nitrogen? FYI you plants still look better than ours. I am eager to hear what is going on as I need to catch up and get on board.

well funny story I can add Calcium anytime I need.. I got an offline anaerobic MT and if by chance I need calcium and well other nutes that comes with the digestate.. I just need to add something rich in carbon into the MT and the bacteria converts that to organic acids very quickly.. like within a day time.. so to counteract that ph drop I use Ca(OH)2 to buffer the MT and well I decant some of this calcium rich water bac into the system.. hence adding calcium to the system.. but all in all my system ph atm is at 8.. pretty high.
The first time I read this it was Greek, the second time not so much...
Thank you Cookie

_________________
:wave1: Brian's AP
:dontknow: I don't understand all I know about this :dontknow:
Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:27 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Feb 7th, '11, 18:32
Posts: 3178
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Most of me
Location: Thailand, Chaing Rai
I have read up concerning adding an anaerobic tank within the MT system,but still not sure how to correctly achieve this yet.... :think:

_________________
dasboot's system
Andreas Garden.
https://www.facebook.com/Andreas-Garden ... 681644511/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:30 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Feb 7th, '11, 18:32
Posts: 3178
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Most of me
Location: Thailand, Chaing Rai
boss wrote:
cookie wrote:
boss wrote:
Mind you, I know nothing about these mineralization tanks, so the only question I can think of is: How is it possible to get calcium instead of nitrogen? FYI you plants still look better than ours. I am eager to hear what is going on as I need to catch up and get on board.

well funny story I can add Calcium anytime I need.. I got an offline anaerobic MT and if by chance I need calcium and well other nutes that comes with the digestate.. I just need to add something rich in carbon into the MT and the bacteria converts that to organic acids very quickly.. like within a day time.. so to counteract that ph drop I use Ca(OH)2 to buffer the MT and well I decant some of this calcium rich water bac into the system.. hence adding calcium to the system.. but all in all my system ph atm is at 8.. pretty high.
The first time I read this it was Greek, the second time not so much...
Thank you Cookie


Excellent little quote,being decoupled I don't have his problem.

_________________
dasboot's system
Andreas Garden.
https://www.facebook.com/Andreas-Garden ... 681644511/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 21:56 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God
User avatar

Joined: Jul 6th, '14, 20:25
Posts: 3841
Location: 2.2 kilometers up, NM, USA
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Series of particles
Location: Sapello, New Mexico USA
Do you ever empty the MT, or is it similar to bio-filters and we always protect the bacteria?

_________________
:wave1: Brian's AP
:dontknow: I don't understand all I know about this :dontknow:
Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 22:24 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '13, 23:00
Posts: 1206
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
@boss np my brother.. umm which MT are you speaking of.? I got an aerobic MT with loads of biofilm in it.
Image

this one I clean once to twice a month to control biological growth to prevent too much O2 gas demand.. I empty this water into my anaerobic offline MT for nutrient recycling and recovery.. which I slowly add back into the system.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

_________________
HAPPY GROWING.

Cookie's System
Cookie's page


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 7th, '16, 22:30 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '13, 23:00
Posts: 1206
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
@scotty currently I am getting convinced that conventional information on aquaponics may not always be the only way... we may be focusing too much on trying to get soluable inorganic minerals ti directly grow plants and forget about building a diverse microbial community to supply nutrients on demand to the plants... if we focus on the latter even if ppm conc is very low and begin further diluted by rain.. the mineral will not be loss because its not always in a soluable form and only becomes soluable only when the plants needs it.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

_________________
HAPPY GROWING.

Cookie's System
Cookie's page


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '16, 02:07 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Aug 26th, '10, 07:17
Posts: 8865
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Oregon, USA
Tropical Farmer wrote:
scotty435 wrote:
I think it's just that the ions are becoming chelated with organic matter so they aren't detected in a conductivity test because as chelates they don't have any exposed charge. The nitrogen probably has something similar happening - it's bound up in organic forms and undetectable as ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, but still available.


Hi Scotty,
Do you think chelated ions or whatever would show up on a colormeter?


You'd have to know what wavelength of light they absorbed and in a mixed solution you'd have a tough time knowing what you were getting because other compounds might absorb light in the same wavelength or alter your results in other ways. You'd also have to know what the chelating agent is in order to determine what wavelength it absorbs light at :dontknow:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '16, 03:31 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Aug 26th, '10, 07:17
Posts: 8865
Gender: Male
Are you human?: YES
Location: Oregon, USA
Cookie, it does seem likely that the nutrients are relatively stable in some forms so that they could be available to the plants. My best guess at this time is that the bacteria excrete ions they can't use and a percentage of these are bound to humic and fulvic acids acting as chelating agents that exist in the sediment of your AP system. I think this is partly why new systems show more deficiency issues than older systems. These sediments become something of a battery, storing ions in a form plants can use later on but they don't exist in new systems and have to be generated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humic_acid

I don't believe this is the only process at work. Some of the nutrients are released from the sediments by the action of large and small organisms (or by their death) or changes in conditions that encourage nutrients to be released that were locked up (phosphorus for example and changes from aerobic to anaerobic conditions that encourage some of the bacteria to release this). Basically the nutrients that aren't being removed from the system are being constantly recycled by a variety of processes.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cookie's system
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '16, 06:17 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sep 6th, '16, 07:26
Posts: 30
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Yes
Location: Lowell, MA, USA
Cookie,

Is there anything special about the styrofoam floats you are using? I'm planning both aquaculture with tilapia I intend for my own table. I know we drink and eat off styrofoam, but don't know if there is a food grading as there is for plastics.

I have a big sheet of packing styrofoam that could make a good float, but it has no marking and I don't have any info on its sourcing.

Should I use it or pass? Anybody can weigh in.

Thanks, Pat


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 779 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Portal by phpBB3 Portal © phpBB Türkiye
[ Time : 0.108s | 19 Queries | GZIP : Off ]