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PostPosted: Mar 29th, '18, 21:30 
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Good (way too early) morning
Good idea Scotty, I'll give that a go.
I had difficulty sleeping.
I used the time to think about where I am going to put the CBB-RFF, or perhaps this is why I couldn't sleep :think:
I finally gave up trying to sleep and got up at 5:00 AM.
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It seems several factors are in play here.
Obviously there is limited space inside our greenhouse.
Secondly, the roof is low on the end of the greenhouse. The filtration currently is behind and below the DWC and this works because I can get to both barrels for maintenance.
The roof isn't all clear, shade and sun-lighted sections are not ideally situated.
In defense of this design, this was supposed to be a fish-house first and greenhouse second.
I had considered putting the CBB-RFF in the corner on the right, behind the geranium.
Three issues came to mind last night:
1. That is actually a sun lighted corner and the CBB is translucent which will be a problem with algae.
2. I need all the sun lighted areas for plants.
3. Accessing the top of the CBB-RFF may be impossible under the low roof in this section.
Better to get the CBB-RFF under the wooden and insulated section, but the DWC is there. Now the DWC really should be in direct sunlight which it isn't currently.
I can move it over the sump on the right as shown in the image, however that has its own difficulties.
1. The DWC is made from a cement mixing HDPE trough and it needs perfect support underneath or it will deform. That section of pond edge isn't at all flat, but it does get great sun-light, both from above and from the south facing window.

I want to extend the greenhouse over to the south along the east side of the house, but that will take time and money we haven't planned for.
I could temporarily build a shed outside the greenhouse or just move all the filters outside for the Summer while I plan the expansion of the greenhouse.
Nothing is popping right out at me.
Why is nothing easy?
Speaking of cans of worms and or barrels of monkeys...
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It seems logical to continue the greenhouse across the side of the house, but...
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For one thing the biodiesel processing shed is in the way. It can be moved, but it could be cleaned too and I haven't done that in ten years, so...
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Something needs to give, I just can't decide which.
It would really solve a lot of problems if I pulled the trigger on the greenhouse extension project.
Then we would have enough space for plants.
:support: Along with all these difficulties and boggles I do not relish the idea of bringing this up with my wife. :support:
I'm happy to be active and able to think these issues through.
Interesting times
Brian Rodgers

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Mar 29th, '18, 22:13 
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Why is it, if we start a project, it always ends up to be to small :D ?


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PostPosted: Mar 29th, '18, 23:19 
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too curiously optimistic?

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Mar 30th, '18, 17:59 
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I'm just saying....


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PostPosted: Mar 31st, '18, 20:36 
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Good morning
Yesterday was pretty awesome. One more trip to the hardware store came about after I forgot to pick up my prescriptions the day before.
Oh well that's okay, now surely I have every little doodad I could possibly need to finish the upgraded air delivery system.
Attachment:
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I made the first cuts yesterday. Most of the time was spent attempting to make the pipes look like a I tried to make it not look like an explosion in a spaghetti factory. We do have a lot of pipes in our aquaponics systems don't we?
Attachment:
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The new pipe is between the two 1/2" white PEX pipes which it is replacing. Part of the challenge is setting up the new system so that the old system goes off at the same time the new system comes online.
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I'll need to do a similar maneuver with the old RFF to cone-bottom barrel RFF upgrade.
Attachment:
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Speaking of the cone-bottom barrel:
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Nell and I worked out where the new filter will sit.
I'm still deciding where to run the 1 1/2" PVC from the SLO to this location without the PVC jutting across the top of the pond and the DWC.
Today Jason and I are finishing up the little remote WiFi tower in Watrous NM. I've had an inflamed left foot for more than a week, that sucks, but it is what it is. It's not going to stop me. Anyway this is nothing compared to the hip pain that occurred when I stopped moving around because of the inflammatory arthritis last year. I will try my best to not let that happen again.
I'm working out every morning to better my odds for good health and that is quite rewarding.
Nell is preparing baseboards and window trim for installation in the addition. Yesterday we installed the new toilet in the powder room. We still have plenty to do in there.
I also still need to install the alternator in the VW Jetta TDI. That project has been on the back burner for too long already.
Last night we had my daughter Brittany and her husband Adam up for dinner and a movie, Star Wars The Last Jedi. Nell hadn't seen it so only Brittany Adam and I played cards while we watched the movie.
Life is good.
Brian and Nell Rodgers

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Apr 1st, '18, 06:29 
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Hey Brian, I reckon don't do things twice if you can avoid it.

Rotate the bio-hut parallel to the south facing wall so you can run a pitching beam across it's north face to the other translucent roof then rafters down and you know the blurb. You'll end up with a larger usable space and access to the bio-hut through the green house. :thumbleft:

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PostPosted: Apr 1st, '18, 19:01 
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I like that idea. I bet rotating the bio-hut would be much easier than moving it too. Thank Petesake.
Yesterday was freakin' awesome!
Attachment:
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Gorgeous day, beautiful country and so good to be working with Jason again too. We took our time and really thought through the process of what gear we needed for putting this small remote tower together.
Attachment:
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We added guy cable protectors to this tower to help protect livestock and elk. Spray painting in the wind was tricky, but they came out pretty good. I forgot to bring a rake and shovel to spread the dirt we dug up for the base and anchors. I did have a camp shovel in the Jeep so that helped clean the site.
Attachment:
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All smiles
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Today we play Easter egg hunt on the Pecos River.
Life is good!
Brian

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Apr 3rd, '18, 23:21 
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Good Morning.
How is everybody?
We're doing well over here in northern New Mexico.
The inflammation flare in my left foot is done thank goodness. Now to get back to work.
I spent a good part of the day yesterday in our greenhouse working out details of this upgrade.
I'm not stuck, I promise. What I am seeing are revelations. I need to do the new air supply lines and almost glued what I have, when I snapped that raising the RFF so I can flush it without hooking up a hose means, the MBBR needs to be at the same level or it will overflow.
I don't know why it took so long for me to realize this. I had been thinking I would just raise the MBBR up so I can get its drain up to a workable level in the sunken greenhouse, but somehow the missed the notion that the water levels in the unsealed tanks needed to match exactly otherwise one will overfill the other.
Doh.
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That's okay, but it means I can not have the 1" PVC air-line where I have it, as that will be in the way of raising the MBBR up to the same level as the RFF.
I can do this.
At issue in my latest boggle is timing. In order to upgrade the current RFF to the new cone-bottom tank I'll need to remove the filters completely. This means I need to have a plan and every single part of the new system ready to install.
There will be no room for errors. Once I start there will be no air or filtration in the heavily over-stocked fish tank.
Okay so here is what I have:
Attachment:
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Not only do I need to consider the wastewater flow I want to address the air bubbles flow at the same time.
Starting at the SLO the air-lift pump mixes bubbles with water to raise the water.
The way I built the masonry tank was to have the 1 1/2" PVC pass through the wall of the 2600 gallon fish tank below the surface at 8". The bubbles need to be bled off where the PVC turns down to go into the bottom of the RFF sitting 3' below the surface. Otherwise the bubbles get trapped in the elbow.
For this upgrade the tank will need to be drained to below that 8" pass-through so I can remove the downward facing elbow and replace it with an upward facing elbow as the new position of the RFF will be higher by two feet. As I see it this means the bubbles can now stay with the wastewater all the way into the cone-bottom RFF. My hope is this is a two birds with one stone affair, which will lead to a quieter operation of the air-lift, because now it is the loudest sound in the greenhouse.
Does this make sense so far?
:dontknow:

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Apr 4th, '18, 03:46 
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all you need to do is raise the PVC pipe of the conical tank to the height you want the water to be at.


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PostPosted: Apr 4th, '18, 03:47 
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oops looking at it again maybe thats not the pipe that it's feeding from, looks like that is an open pipe for something else to drain in to. but same concept, set the height of the conical water level based on the height of "U" tube to have it flow in to the next tank from there.

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PostPosted: Apr 4th, '18, 22:40 
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Cool Rob, thanks. It's the MBBR I was concerned about over-flowing. Will this work for either tank?
I think I have a way to raise it as well :think:

I've got the cone-bottom tank in the living room looking into how to do the internal plumbing.

With the extra time I am spending around our filtration system observing, I'm able to see more clearly what is happening now and what I want to happen in the new RFF.

Since the current RFF is running with high levels of feed /waste it emphasizes how efficient or not the filtration functions.

I'm sure I missed issues with the RFF design, please let me know what you think.
Issues I've thought of are:
1> Aside from the fact that the flat bottom of the RFF makes cleaning difficult, the drains are too close to the ground.
2> Solids stick to pipes as well as the sides of the barrel. I need a good cleaning technique. The issue of solids sticking to the sides and pipes inside the RFF can probably be dealt with by adding air for cleaning time. Like the first RFF there will be a way to isolate the barrel for cleaning,
3> I also see that some solids float. This issue may occur because I'm feeding Skretting Floating Trout food. I don't know, whatever causes it, I need to deal with this in the new RFF. At issue is the floating waste bypasses the effect of the stilling well and makes its way to the outflow screen clogging it.
Attachment:
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In the current RFF I have a single vertical outflow PVC pipe with slots cut into the sides and hole in the top. The water tends to flow directly to the outflow from around the stilling well.
Attachment:
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In the new system I'm considering wrapping the outflow around the stilling well with graduated slots getting larger as they move away for the outflow. (Sorry I didn't draw the outflow ring in the above drawing.) My SLO design has less slots in the pipe close to air-lift and more toward the far end and it seems to work well. Water should follow the path of least resistance, thus water won't be unduly attracted to the near end of the outflow. Also I'll set the outflow beneath the water surface perhaps at six inches.
Attachment:
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It looks like I can fit four 45 degree elbows with short sections of PVC to create a ring around the stilling well for the outflow.
That should address the issue of water flow concentrating at one point in the RFF outflow.

We recently dropped Amazon Prime, so I am using Ebay for the things I used to get there. After looking at the ring shape outflow I had been considering having more than one outflow bulkhead fitting in the cone-bottom tank. I ordered 6 1 1/2" Uniseals off Ebay It could double for support for the stilling well.
Attachment:
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I've also come up with a way to get a larger diameter stilling well in the small hole of the cone-bottom tank, although I am still on the fence as to whether I should just cut the top out for access and cleaning. I'll cut a sheet of HDPE (plastic) and roll it up small enough to fit in the top bung hole, then let it expand inside and clip the ends with a zip tie.

There is another dimension I need to consider when deciding if I want to change to top hole size. That is air from the air-lift pump. The way I'm visualizing this working is the bubbles stay with the waste water all the way into the RFF. If you've not used an air-lift pump you may not know, they are very noisy. I''m hoping the RFF will act as a muffler, but the air has to go somewhere. Rob, that pipe you drew the extension on is where the outflow from the air lift returns to the system, because the air vent in an air-lift pump also has water in it. Now that is not what I added that pipe for, it was supposed to be a second inflow to the RFF, but that did not work out like I planned, so it is superfluous now and I stuck the air vent in there.

The lid: One of the worries associated with using a second water pump like an air-lift is overflows. What happens when there is a clog? The air-lift keeps on pumping. This is the only reason I can think of to keep the lid on the cone-bottom tank. Our system is basically in our house so we monitor everything daily. If the lid was simply set in place I can continue to clean the sides and outflows with a quick spray from the hose eliminating the need for an air-cleaning system?


At some point I thought I should bite the bullet and return the 35 gallon tank for the 15 gallon tank which this company also sells. The difference is the 15 gallon tank is 19" in diameter compared to the 23" diameter 35 gallon tank. Not much of a difference considering it cost $44 to ship the tank here. Conversely, I think the extra area around the stilling well will provide lower velocity of waste water allowing the waste time to settle and not be overcome by flow. You all know by now I'm poor with math, nevertheless I see how the waste flows upward in the RFF and is reversed through gravity and flow then separated and dropped out the bottom under the stilling well. This is a pretty cool phenomenon.

There are a lot more types of suspended solids than I imagined. I was thinking the solids were like flakes. I probably need a second filter for fines. Our system seems more like a recirculating aquaculture setup with aquaponics on the side. This is especially true if I continue to stock this system heavily as it appears I want to do. Traveling long distances for fingerlings in the neighboring state means buying more fish at a time is more economical. Even buying and shipping fish food is more economical in greater numbers.
I just ordered Skretting 4.5 mm Floating Trout feed at $26.80 for 40 pounds with shipping
FedEx Ground: $24.48 doh!
Alrighty then, that's my story for Wednesday .
I hope it made sense, I know it helped me think these issues through.
Thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments and suggestions.
Brian Rodgers

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Apr 4th, '18, 23:35 
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If you are afraid of overflow, just install a pipe at max level and direct the overflow to point of origin.


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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '18, 18:36 
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+1 to gnoib's comment... I don't think you'll really have an overflow issue unless the plumbing isn't sized properly for draining the amount of water that your pump puts in, it's only going to go up to whatever level you put your overflow plumbing at. If all else fails put an emergency drain a little higher back to the sump as a backup. The only issue I can see is just the conical tank, but it should be controlled based on the height of your overflow pipe too, either internal or external set your pipe the height you want the water in the tank.

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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '18, 20:36 
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Thank you both, overflow is something I was considering while weighing pros and cons of having a sealed filter system. I'm still leaning toward cutting out the top and don't see a downside. I told my wife yesterday I'd wait until after the Uniseals arrive to do any further work on that filter as we have so many projects needing attention, but truth be told I'm already obsessing over building a fines filter.
:support:
Who here uses fines filters?
What types of fines filters are there?
BroHay, how's the sieve working?
While searching for filters this morning I keep coming across this filter layout from http://www.koiforum.uk/koi-carp-chat/16715-diy-filter.html
I don't know why I was worried about levels and overflows, of course they overflow, doh!
Attachment:
Filter-levels.jpg
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Sieve filters do look great, but they're a bit complicated to create.
This is from http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?108980-New-diy-sieve/page7
Attachment:
DIY-Sieve.jpg
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If I was going to go this route I probably do it without the RFF.
I was thinking something more along the lines of sticking a Matala course round filter in a pressured barrel
Attachment:
Matala_Round.jpg
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I know this would be a nightmare to clean.
Anyway, dawn is approaching and while I had fun killing time thinking about this stuff, I better plan my day.

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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PostPosted: Apr 6th, '18, 22:05 
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Good morning.
How is everyone?
This morning I went from thinking about filtration for fish to http://www.koiphen.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5405102
then to
http://www.pskoi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=226&start=80
where I followed a Koi buying trip which was just wow! I learned two things right away, there are a lot of breeds of Koi and it can snow like crazy in Japan.
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These are some of the champions from the PSKoi 2018 show
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Russel wrote: We started out the day at Ikarashi Koi Farm. Ikarashi Kazuto was know for very high quality, expensive Gosanke. He passed away a few years ago and his son took over the business. He decided to go an entirely different direction and breeds a lot of unusual Kawarimono. He also breeds Gosanke still so, even though I picked up a lot of Kawarimono, I did get some Kohaku, Sanke, Showa, Shiro Utsuri and GR Shiro Utsuri. He is some of what I picked up and I will post the rest in the sales section later.
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I like the iridescent Koi as much as the champions, lol.
Lot of color there
Hope you appreciate the distraction as much as I did.
Brian

_________________
:wave1: Brian's AP
:dontknow: I don't understand all I know about this :dontknow:
Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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