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PostPosted: Apr 13th, '15, 09:33 
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I would get the nitrates down first - way too high. Sometimes high nitrates can interfere with the uptake of iron in the leaves. There may be plenty of iron but the plant can't use it. I think it's likely that the other nutrients are high and what you're seeing could be toxicity reactions. On the other hand it could just be an imbalance :dontknow:.

Try sprinkling a little bone meal on the grow beds and see what happens. This will provide phosphorus and add many of the minerals needed in trace amounts. Just looking at these plants it looks like some have iron uptake problems while others show what looks like magnesium related problems. You could also spray with epsom salts (Magnesium Sulfate - 1tsp/gallon for a spray) and Chelated iron (DTPA is probably your best bet although your pH would allow for regular unchelated iron to work). If you haven't been adding iron then the plants probably need it.

My personal opinion is, if you're showing some nitrates, you probably have enough or the plants would have removed it. Some people run with none or almost none showing when they test. Mr Damage's post here may be of interest to you in this regard as well - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24727&p=502682&hilit=nitrates+ppm#p502682


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PostPosted: Apr 13th, '15, 10:23 
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I notice in the pics the water level is very high in the net pots,this will give problems and in the pic 912 jpg the stem on this plant at the media level looks wrong,if the root systems on these plants are not getting enough oxygen it will give these symptoms.Ideally the base of the net pot wants to be just touching the water or slightly above it.

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PostPosted: Apr 13th, '15, 10:38 
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+1 on dasboot's comment


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PostPosted: Apr 13th, '15, 15:52 
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tnx so much for the comments guys- looking at the billion plant def photos online i start to convince myself its everything def and toxicity lol however it did accur to me that it could be N toxicity now the chillies lower leaves are doing the rams horn/ eagle claw thing while upper leaves are doing the canoe/taco ( curling down in lower leaves curling up and lengthwise in upper leaves)

@ scotty-i was leaning towards iron and mag so i will def get something( found a great site for central europe http://en.deutsche-phytoengineering.de/) watching doc nate to figure which chemicals are safe to use- they have a nice range though dont have bone meal or kelp here- no idea how to find it im not local but will look into that- also will slow the feeding down

@ dasboot-the netpot is just touching the water i usually water the netpots until the seeds sprout- i had been watering lately as i thoght that could be a cause of the seedling issues but will look intyo this and possibly raise the raft a bit tnx ) as per pic 912 that chilli plant was sprouted in soil and planted into the bed its a constant flood bed i forgot to fill in the holes they were planted in s will do it now- also i added a 25cm long air stone with 2 outlets connected to it on the bottom before the hydroton went it- anything i can do now other than fill e bed the rest of the way up with hydroton?


thank you for the feedback

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PostPosted: Apr 14th, '15, 16:57 
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viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24661#p501734

then i saw this looks exactly like the chilli and capsicums right now

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PostPosted: Apr 15th, '15, 17:50 
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added:
1/3 teaspoon of epsom salt-magnesium
2 eggshells(skinned cooked and crushed into pantyhose)-calcium
have not fed the fish the last 24 hours
as i understand eggshells dont dissolve once ph reaches 7? so i have added half a cap of ph down( phosphoric acid) once ph got to 7 and will do this again once the ph gets back up to 7( i also have nitric acid but am trying to lower the nitrates o not using it now)

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PostPosted: Apr 15th, '15, 19:32 
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ok now im starting to feel like an idiot

i have these test strips from the aquarium shop im using to test no2 and no3 they also how cl2 KH Gh and PH( although its usually way off so i use drops from the hydro shop for ph)

been reading on KH/gh as i really wanna get to the bottom of this

was told by the aquarium guys that vienna has really hard water- my kh readings are usually 3-6 degrees and GH is usually 18-20 degrees( by usually i mean i think ive seen it out of that range once or twice)

thats pretty hard BUT what i didnt know is
"
General Hardness (GH)

This is essentially a measurement of Magnesium and Calcium ions in the water."

http://www.chelonia.org/articles/waterchemistry.htm

so in reality i should have 350ish ppms of magnisuim and calcium

rrrg fail :dontknow: :upset:

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PostPosted: Apr 16th, '15, 01:30 
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Your GH tells you that you have Calcium and/or Magnesium, not how much of either one though. The city probably does tests for this sort of thing and can tell you how much is in your water - might be a free way to find out without buying another test kit.


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PostPosted: Apr 16th, '15, 16:04 
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hmm

Ph has gone down to 6

nitrates down to 200

KH has gone down a bit-basically hasnt moved

Gh gone up to greater than 21( the highest on the strips aka the one with the '=( !!!!!'

fish still alive for now

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PostPosted: Apr 16th, '15, 17:35 
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added another pouch of eggshells
ph is going back up now at 6.4
NO2 is showing for the first time ever at 2mg/l
No3 is going back up now at about 300 agian
so a slight smell of ammonia above the tank which it usually doesnt have at all
guess this is gonna get worse before it gets better gonna leave it for now and just wait it out

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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '15, 00:02 
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If you haven't salted you should salt to 1ppt to help the fish with the nitrites -

Nitrite issues - 1ppt = 1KG per 1000L or 1gm per L

Use un-iodized NaCl that doesn't have any caking agents added. Some people use pool salt, some use sea salt from the bulk bins at the grocery store and there are other sources.

-----
Did you add bone meal as I suggested earlier? The phosphorus in bone meal will help with nitrate uptake it there is a shortage of phosphorus (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02198114). It also has calcium. It sounds like you have some nitrification going on since the pH is dropping. Bone meal is for occasional use only don't add it as a regular supplement and don't apply a ton of it. This is for two reasons, over applying the phosphorus can be a problem and because some bone meal has high lead levels.


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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '15, 02:30 
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scotty435 wrote:
If you haven't salted you should salt to 1ppt to help the fish with the nitrites -

Nitrite issues - 1ppt = 1KG per 1000L or 1gm per L

Use un-iodized NaCl that doesn't have any caking agents added. Some people use pool salt, some use sea salt from the bulk bins at the grocery store and there are other sources.

-----
Did you add bone meal as I suggested earlier? The phosphorus in bone meal will help with nitrate uptake it there is a shortage of phosphorus (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02198114). It also has calcium. It sounds like you have some nitrification going on since the pH is dropping. Bone meal is for occasional use only don't add it as a regular supplement and don't apply a ton of it. This is for two reasons, over applying the phosphorus can be a problem and because some bone meal has high lead levels.



tnx scotty

i will def get bone meal soon possibly this weekend
salt- added epsom as mentioned earlier will look into NaCI salt although thse fish r pretty tough ive had nitrates at 500( actualy thats where i was trying to get them without realising how bad that is)
only phosphorus going in was the phosphoric acid ph down added 2 caps(59% phosphoric acid-P205) in total now ph is coming back up with the egg shells

will continue posting anything i do/ change/add

appreciate the help

do u think it could be Cal def?

especially looking at pics of cal def in lettuce and those pics of the last harvests(all bubbly leaves)

also been reading around on those "other"gardening forums seems environmental issues could be at play( humidity) but also likely lack of oxygen to the rhizosphere as mentioned here earlier-bloody constant flood

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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '15, 04:07 
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At this point I'm not certain what's going on so I'm trying to figure this out. I think the bone meal is your best shot though because it looks like more than one problem. I doubt it's calcium since you have hard water and your pH is below 7 (just going from memory didn't look back for this). You've been adding epsom salts or I might suspect magnesium. What I'm left with is either something is preventing the nutrients from being used or some sort of toxicity reaction. Lowering the nitrates has to do with the iron issues as mentioned and raising the phosphorus is hopefully going to allow the nutrients to be used. Given your GH reading you could find a Calcium test kit and figure out how much calcium and magnesium are in the system if you want to be sure about the levels. I haven't looked for a Calcium test kit but I'm pretty sure they're out there.

Since you haven't purchased the bone meal try to find one that has no or very low nitrogen.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '15, 04:31 
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yup

added epsom salt and egg shell for the first time yesterday
been keeping the ph lower than usual in ap systems to avoid lockout these gold fish r pretty tough
ph is coming back up to 7 nitrate still high though

i guess it is a combination of a few things but the newest leaves on the chili(seem to have come out in the last 30hrs) arnt as mmangled looking yet so at least there is growth for now

tnx again

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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '15, 04:53 
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Let the pH come down and add the two again. If it's working, then it's likely to be a deficiency and you may not need the bone meal (you may wind up getting it later but wait and lets see how it goes). You'll still have to deal with the iron deficiency that's on some of the smaller plants and get the nitrates down :thumbright:


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