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 Post subject: Getting my feet wet...
PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 02:36 
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Keying this up for this forum section from my intro thread.
---
Starting to plan things out... I'm debating between trying to use the pump line to promote water movement on the bottom of the fish tank and more solid lifting or running that back up to the top of the fish tank for increased aeration.

Scaling may be off, TinkerCAD seems to be the only design software I've found that makes sense to me but it limits the scale down fairly small. Seems to be linked to AutoCAD so I may be able to work out importing it there.

Need to settle on a proper sized sump tank and pump, constant flow with two bell siphons and aeration outlets into the sump tank. My intent is to use one whole IBC for the FT and split another for the brow beds.

Attachment:
File comment: Top down view.
AP-Top.PNG
AP-Top.PNG [ 152.24 KiB | Viewed 2823 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Still debating on grow bed frame materials.
AP-Front.PNG
AP-Front.PNG [ 152.01 KiB | Viewed 2823 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: 3/4 view
AP-Projection.PNG
AP-Projection.PNG [ 244.09 KiB | Viewed 2823 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: SLO and pump intake detail.
AP-TopFT-Detail.PNG
AP-TopFT-Detail.PNG [ 107.14 KiB | Viewed 2823 times ]

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PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 07:22 
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hi there! i think the best way to setup a square-ish/ rectangle-ish type FT is to have in flow on one side and out flow on opposite side. this makes the FT self cleaning and good flow for fish to not be lazy. hehe. i have my blue barrel FT setup like that and with low flow. it stays clean. i like the idea of using the inflow from pump to FT as an extra source for aeration.

for stands for the ibc totes, i see people using cinder blocks, simple, cheap, done! I guess it depends on the location you are planning on setting this up. would need to know more about where its going. is it going to be on concrete? is the ground level? the system I have up now is on concrete, nice! but my backyard is mostly soil, no concrete... nd tons of gophers! so i have to be more careful about how i set my system up. the ground for me can shift and thats no good for growbeds and FTs. so maybe you can share more about where it wil be going.

i am using a VERY over powered pump and just running most of it back to the sump for aeration. no air pump needed.

Good luck on your build and hope to see some pics!

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PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 22:48 
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Adding comments from intro thread...

nosliwmas wrote:
Nice CAD Casey!

Two things that come to mind (maybe 3) regarding your Sump Tank back to the Fish Tank design... :think:

1. What happens if the pump stops? Would you have to worry about the Fish Tank draining almost completely back into the Sump Tank (and probably overflowing the Sump?) I suppose a check valve could prevent trouble there...

2. Most folks seem to pump from Sump back up to top of Fish Tank and try to get more splash for the buck to improve aeration of the water. Pumping up from the bottom would not do that. Many have great success with the fish stirring up the muck to help get it up and out the SLO.

3. I haven't thought it through enough to say for sure one way or another, but it might take more effort for the pump to pump into the Fish Tank at the bottom due to the water pressure than it would to pump into the Fish Tank at the top. That might really be a non-issue with head being head either way...

Another consideration regarding the SLO is that too many inputs could result in very little sucking power. It's all the same going up, but it might be that the water flow going in the 4 inputs at the bottom of the tank each draw too little to suck in very much of the accumulated solids.

BTW, I used to live in the DFW area. What kind of fish are you planning for the North Texas climate?

Good luck on the build! I'm jealous of all the hardware stores, etc. you've got available in the metroplex. I just flew threw DFW a few weeks ago and loaded up my suitcases with pump, testing supplies, bulkhead adapters, etc. ;-)

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Thanks! Yeah I was wondering about a lot of this... SLO could be scaled down or use small slits to maximize draw in of solids. I hadn't thought about backflow for the pump turned off so that part definitely makes sense and the added aeration can't hurt... I'll also move one set of pipes to the opposite side of the fish tank to reduce the amount of pipe needed.

Attachment:
File comment: Updated
AP-TopFT-redesign.PNG
AP-TopFT-redesign.PNG [ 152.84 KiB | Viewed 2772 times ]


Thinking about lots of different fish... lol

Leaning towards Blue Tilapia but also interested in crawfish, shrimp, catfish and LM Bass.

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PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 22:56 
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redeemED wrote:
hi there! i think the best way to setup a square-ish/ rectangle-ish type FT is to have in flow on one side and out flow on opposite side. this makes the FT self cleaning and good flow for fish to not be lazy. hehe. i have my blue barrel FT setup like that and with low flow. it stays clean. i like the idea of using the inflow from pump to FT as an extra source for aeration.

for stands for the ibc totes, i see people using cinder blocks, simple, cheap, done! I guess it depends on the location you are planning on setting this up. would need to know more about where its going. is it going to be on concrete? is the ground level? the system I have up now is on concrete, nice! but my backyard is mostly soil, no concrete... nd tons of gophers! so i have to be more careful about how i set my system up. the ground for me can shift and thats no good for growbeds and FTs. so maybe you can share more about where it wil be going.

i am using a VERY over powered pump and just running most of it back to the sump for aeration. no air pump needed.

Good luck on your build and hope to see some pics!

Had no idea fish got lazy... :think: :lol:

The flow comment makes me wonder if I shouldn't eliminate the SLO intake "tubes" out into the center of the tank entirely... set up more flow to one location, maybe just put a T down at the bottom of the out flow, capped on the ends with slits underneath.

Definitely considering adding more aeration back into the sump tank.

As to location I'm planning it in my back yard, mild slope I hope to grade out to be level under the tanks. No foundation planned, that would require permits. ;) Hoping to get a decent gravel foundation down so it's there but not as permanent and want to use a greenhouse if I can manage the TX heat and still grow but keep the benefits of a physical pest barrier.

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PostPosted: Aug 11th, '16, 23:14 
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Split IBC grow beds, 2 grow beds just shy of 4'x4'x10" (1 inch dry, 1 inch always wet), would come out to roughly 27 cubic feet of water or just over 200 gallons if I am reading things right...

That's a decent sized sump. :think: Can I use that as a hatchery if I screen off the pump really well?

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PostPosted: Aug 12th, '16, 01:15 
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Was pricing grow media, expanded shale looks like it would run ~6.5 times less than clay.

Anyone familiar with other pros and cons between the two media types?

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PostPosted: Aug 12th, '16, 05:12 
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OK, I'll stop tinkering for now but refined the design a bit...

Less elbows, a little more air space in the fish tank, more pipes I can bind together for support, more reliance on container sides for additional support and SLO down in one corner of the fish tank.

I'm playing around with an idea on the bell siphons to make them look fairly clean by running the air break line up the inside of the main casing.
Attachment:
File comment: Likely to be the front of the system for me, allowing everything to be inside a small greenhouse.
AP2-Front.PNG
AP2-Front.PNG [ 232.29 KiB | Viewed 2754 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: 3/4 view from the "front".
AP2-Projection.PNG
AP2-Projection.PNG [ 207.07 KiB | Viewed 2754 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Good view of sump tank.
AP2-Back.PNG
AP2-Back.PNG [ 108.23 KiB | Viewed 2754 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Fish Tank detail view from top.
AP2-TopFT-Detail.PNG
AP2-TopFT-Detail.PNG [ 69.39 KiB | Viewed 2754 times ]

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PostPosted: Aug 16th, '16, 00:06 
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Added an open T at the top of the SLO out of the fish tank but now I'm questioning ratios...

Estimating 200 gallons of grow bed off this design, that would limit my fish more than the size of the actual tank if I'm reading things properly... yes? Is there any reason I should not grow less fish than the fish tank volume supports then look to add grow beds down the road?

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PostPosted: Aug 16th, '16, 02:07 
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the T idea sounds great. i wanted to save the space inside the growbed so i put my bell siphon outside. i recommend it! its way easier to mess with and u get the extra grow space.

i attached a pic of it. it is just above the sump. 2" bell with 1" stand pipe inside it.


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20160802_194521-800x450.jpg
20160802_194521-800x450.jpg [ 102.82 KiB | Viewed 2708 times ]

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PostPosted: Aug 16th, '16, 02:36 
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Hmm.... do you then keep a small stand pipe in the grow bed to allow for mineralization in the bottom of the bed?

Looks like this eliminates the "need" for an air break line?

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PostPosted: Aug 17th, '16, 11:03 
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Is there any reason I should not grow less fish than the fish tank volume supports then look to add grow beds down the road?

nope - in fact that is what is usually recommended. Run less fish in a new system until things settle down and you have an idea of capacity and nitrates etc. It is no problem having a large tank and small grow bed matched to the #fish.

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PostPosted: Aug 17th, '16, 22:28 
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dlf_perth wrote:
nope - in fact that is what is usually recommended. Run less fish in a new system until things settle down and you have an idea of capacity and nitrates etc. It is no problem having a large tank and small grow bed matched to the #fish.
Thanks!

Chomping at the bit but the normal limits, time and cash, keeping me in check... :geek:

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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '16, 01:50 
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redeemED wrote:
the T idea sounds great. i wanted to save the space inside the growbed so i put my bell siphon outside. i recommend it! its way easier to mess with and u get the extra grow space.

i attached a pic of it. it is just above the sump. 2" bell with 1" stand pipe inside it.


Something along these lines?

Still trying to source something to get nested pipes like you have... Lowe's and Home Depot don't seem to list step down caps similar to the ones in Ed's T-connection.

Trying to decide if this design would break well enough when the water reaches the outlet level to forego a siphon air-break line.

Attachment:
File comment: Proposed inclusion in grow bed.
BellSiphon2-Assembled.PNG
BellSiphon2-Assembled.PNG [ 101.43 KiB | Viewed 2601 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Open view showing stand pipe.
BellSiphon2-TopOpen.PNG
BellSiphon2-TopOpen.PNG [ 50.92 KiB | Viewed 2601 times ]

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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '16, 07:40 
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casey37 wrote:
Trying to decide if this design would break well enough when the water reaches the outlet level to forego a siphon air-break line.

Wouldn't you figure tube sizes the same way on that outside the bed siphon as you would if it were inside the bed? You'd obviously have a media guard or something over the growbed drain -- maybe something like a kitchen sink garbage disposal to chop roots? ;-)

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PostPosted: Aug 26th, '16, 08:13 
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Ha... :)

Been thinking about that too and suspect a media guard I can twist to break roots would be a solid plan.

From Ed's pic I don't see an air break line included....

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