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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 20th, '16, 11:10 
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Hi Darren,

I haven't added anything since 14/10, day 12.

The test colours are becoming more vibrant see today's test below it looks like the nitrites and nitrates are racing to orbit!
As recommended I haven't used the pond water which is 7.0Ph. I rang Buxton trout farm, they advised me that their fingerlings live in 6.4 -7.4 Ph, so how am I going to get the Ph down to those levels?
After today's test I added about 60 lt mains 7.6Ph water to the FT as the sump tanks had dropped about 40 mm in 18 days.

On another thread we had a discussion about topping the water levels up with a float in the FT.
I installed one but prior to plumbing it I realized that the FT will remain full until the sump tanks run out of water and the pump runs dry.
So really the float or water adding device should be added to the sump tank to keep them full. Problem is their water levels go down and up about 200 mm per cycle so I can't use a float because it will add water while the cycle is under way and flood the sump tanks.
Does someone have a solution to this problem?

Pete. :think:


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File comment: Day 18 test
2016-10-20 10.53.48.jpg
2016-10-20 10.53.48.jpg [ 211.47 KiB | Viewed 2817 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 20th, '16, 11:31 
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Put the float in the lower section of the ST, so that it only lets the water in when the water in the ST falls below that level. When the ST is full, it will be underwater, and then as the maximum volume of water is pumped from the ST the float will just about activate each time, and as evaporation and transpiration remove water it will start to let a bit of water in each time. You could put a solenoid and timer on it if you only wanted it to fill at certain times of the day, such as at night, to avoid hot water going in.

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 20th, '16, 11:38 
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Thanks Gordon,

I was bashing my brains about this but never thought to put the float down low as I've always seen them up high.

Pete. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 21st, '16, 11:11 
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Over hump day?
Looks like everything is coming down - Am is being consumed, Nitrite is beginning to run out of Am to convert and the bed is consuming and beginning to deplete the nitrate reserves. Does that sum it up?

Pete.


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File comment: Day 19 test
2016-10-21 12.48.27.jpg
2016-10-21 12.48.27.jpg [ 205.91 KiB | Viewed 2803 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '16, 18:43 
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Ian from Ideal Fish Feed had my order delivered within 3 days this week 3kg/3.0mm, 2kg/2.3mm & 1.0kg/1.8mm see pics. It pongs a bit should get a plastic box for them so the rodents don't get excited by the smell.
Also, I received wet/dry 2 pumps from creative Pumps see spec on pics, I wanted to put one in but it's been bucketing down all day.
This morning I installed the UPS.
Day 20 test result.

Pete.


Attachments:
File comment: Day 20 test
2016-10-22 13.55.44.jpg
2016-10-22 13.55.44.jpg [ 184.62 KiB | Viewed 2793 times ]
File comment: New pump spec
2016-10-22 19.55.42.jpg
2016-10-22 19.55.42.jpg [ 141.29 KiB | Viewed 2793 times ]
File comment: New pump
2016-10-22 19.55.28.jpg
2016-10-22 19.55.28.jpg [ 172.54 KiB | Viewed 2793 times ]
File comment: 3 mm pellets
2016-10-22 18.39.19.jpg
2016-10-22 18.39.19.jpg [ 248.66 KiB | Viewed 2793 times ]
File comment: 1.8 & 2.3 mm pellets
2016-10-22 18.39.29.jpg
2016-10-22 18.39.29.jpg [ 187.72 KiB | Viewed 2793 times ]
File comment: Trout pellets
2016-10-22 18.39.12.jpg
2016-10-22 18.39.12.jpg [ 218.21 KiB | Viewed 2793 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '16, 20:25 
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Pete wrote:
As recommended I haven't used the pond water which is 7.0Ph. I rang Buxton trout farm, they advised me that their fingerlings live in 6.4 -7.4 Ph, so how am I going to get the Ph down to those levels?
After today's test I added about 60 lt mains 7.6Ph water to the FT as the sump tanks had dropped about 40 mm in 18 days.

Yep, that is always a bummer with a high pH system. If it doesn't reduce with time and water top ups etc then you will have to take your time conditioning you fish. You may be better off having a separate tank that you can gradually water change in AP water. In future you will have to use a hospital tank in any event - so pH acclimatization can occur during initial salting. Biggest thing is not to move the pH too much - is a gradual process.

Not worth messing too much with your system pH because that is IMO a road that leads to too much frigging around with system chemistry too soon. One of the pitfalls of a new system for the first 12 months. Many of these things settle on their own over time - why many people often suggest goldfish for first 12 months.

If you were to use pond water you would have to run it through a UV or something.
And you would need to add salt to kill anything (basically sterilise).

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '16, 20:39 
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Petesake wrote:
Thanks Gordon,

I was bashing my brains about this but never thought to put the float down low as I've always seen them up high.

Pete. :)


Why would you go low? the float is used to keep the water level near the full mark, putting it low you would have to drain a lot of water till it started.

Besides they are Not designed for rapid filling, a 1/2" valve fills at a record rate of 18 liters per minute.

https://www.plumbingsupply.com/floatvalve.html

FL803 1/2" 4.75 gpm/18 lpm at 14° F - 212° F

Remember the above is designed for a float valve that is hooked up to a pressurized supply line, in your case using gravity feed the flow rate will be way less.

But w/o knowing what your system is, its hard to realize what you really need?

Care to say?

OP


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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '16, 20:53 
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Your initial set of plants might turn out a bit bitter with your high nitrate levels. I would try to ornamental plants at first to try and bring the levels down a bit before trying something you're going to eat. As far as pH is concerned any change in pH needs to be done gradually or it'll just go back to where it was. There are a ton of techniques to bring it down from water changes to special order lab chemicals to natural products like vinegar. All of your options have benefits and drawbacks so you'll have to tread carefully and find out what works for your situation.





As OP said you want to try to put the fill valve on the high side of your tank. Provided you removed the chlorine from your emergency water source, a little extra water won't throw off your system's chemistry, provided your water isn't a crazy weird pH. And it's much worse to be with not enough water than a bit too much.


Last edited by Frap on Oct 22nd, '16, 22:12, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '16, 21:07 
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Petesake wrote:
As recommended I haven't used the pond water which is 7.0Ph. I rang Buxton trout farm, they advised me that their fingerlings live in 6.4 -7.4 Ph, so how am I going to get the Ph down to those levels?
After today's test I added about 60 lt mains 7.6Ph water to the FT as the sump tanks had dropped about 40 mm in 18 days.

Proportional Injectors
Pure Hydroponics supplies the range of Mix Rite Proportional Injectors made by Tefen in Israel.

Proportional injectors are used to dose soluble fertilser, acids or agrichemicals directly inline into a passing flow of water with a high level of accuracy.

These additives are injected at a set proportion of the passing flow. If water flow increases, then the rate of injection automatically adjusts to maintain a set percentage.

As water flows through the injector, an internal water driven piston moves up and down to create the suction action which draws the additives into the injection unit.

No electricity is required.

Additives are constantly added as water flows through the unit with minimal pressure loss to the passing flow.

The proportional injectors can be installed inline, on a bypass manifold, or on multiple bypass manifolds parallel to the main line.

Proportional injectors are a cheaper, non electric alternative for growers who do not wish to use automated dosing controllers for dosing Nutrients A, B and pH on a drip fertigation system. Three injectors are purchased instead: one for Nutrient A, one for B and one for pH correction.

EC and pH monitoring of the nutrient solution is conducted downline with a handheld meter (Bluelab Combo Meter) or monitor (Bluelab Guardian). This can be via an inline sampling point (EC and pH probes mounted in an inline tee) or at the delivery point (e.g a sample taken from the drippers and then tested).

The injection percentages are then adjusted to ensure the correct EC and pH is maintained as the solution is pumped to the crop. The injection ratios are easily adjusted by turning a handle on the base of the proportional injector. Once the correct downstream EC and pH is reached no further adjustments are required on the injector provided that the strength of the stock solutions and consistency of the water source remains constant over time.


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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '16, 21:26 
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Frap wrote:
Your initial set of plants might turn out a bit bitter with your high nitrate levels. I would try to ornamental plants at first to try and bring the levels down a bit before trying something you're going to eat. .

Frap

Watch the following video by Ryan Chatterson, he tells you how to reduce the nitrates in the irrigation water from Point A - B.

Point A is a leaf crop such as lettuce that uses most of the nitrates. What's left over goes to the Fruiting plants with less nitrates, Point B.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF4QsdV ... r_embedded

OP


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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '16, 22:13 
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Old Prospector wrote:
Frap wrote:
Your initial set of plants might turn out a bit bitter with your high nitrate levels. I would try to ornamental plants at first to try and bring the levels down a bit before trying something you're going to eat. .

Frap

Watch the following video by Ryan Chatterson, he tells you how to reduce the nitrates in the irrigation water from Point A - B.

Point A is a leaf crop such as lettuce that uses most of the nitrates. What's left over goes to the Fruiting plants with less nitrates, Point B.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF4QsdV ... r_embedded

OP


Oh wow, that's clever. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '16, 05:16 
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Old Prospector wrote:
Why would you go low? the float is used to keep the water level near the full mark, putting it low you would have to drain a lot of water till it started.

Besides they are Not designed for rapid filling, a 1/2" valve fills at a record rate of 18 liters per minute.


If you put it up high, then it will fill the ST up when the water is pumped to the GBs, then when it returns from the GBs, it will overflow the ST! The idea is to maintain sufficient water in the ST so that it doesn't run dry due to evaporation and transpiration, you can only do that with a low float valve.

He isn't trying to fill the ST quickly, just keep it topped up- so it is full, (not overflowing) when the GBs are drained. It's what I have long planned for both my systems - I know it works, because I have been doing just that for years, manually- adding water to the ST when it is at minimum level.

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '16, 06:35 
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Thank's Guys,

may be I should start exchanging 50 Lt per day with town water after test time (midday) and see what happens - what do you think?

Pete.

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '16, 07:07 
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Just a note about your nitrate levels, I and some others on the forum have run ~500ppm nitrates for extended periods with no bitter tasting vegetables, bad tasting fish, or fish deaths. That doesn't mean it is ideal, just that it isn't necessarily a big issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Pete's first system
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '16, 07:27 
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Thanks Gordon,

either way I've got to wait until the nitrites are back in the light blue and ammonia is in the yellow before running the ammonia test - correct?

Pete.

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