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PostPosted: Oct 10th, '16, 11:55 
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I'm closer to getting my small iAVs system up and running so I thought that I'd post a Sketchup picture of what I have in mind. Still waiting for my tools to be delivered after almost 3 months in transit (mostly sitting in Cartago awaiting customs release). When they get here I'll be able to construct the wooden box that will hold my sand bed. I'll post updates as I progress.


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PostPosted: Oct 10th, '16, 21:30 
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Nice looking sketch! :thumbright:

I hope they don't stick you for an exorbitant amount of warehousing fees. I just started using Box Correos to send a few smaller things and so far so good. Last package only took 7 days to go from freight forwarder's address in Miami to the post office nearest me (2 days in customs.) Today I've got a wheel hub bearing assembly scheduled to arrive at the freight forwarder's address in Miami, so this will be my 2nd test of using Box Correos. So far I'm a fan.

Good luck getting your tools and with the iAV prototype.

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 00:08 
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Thanks Sam. Good to hear about Box Correos as well. We are looking into getting a box as soon as we get a little more organized!

I did end up getting an IBC tank from that place near the Grecia exit on Ruta 1. Paid 45k colones plus 13k c each for two of those blue barrels (will use to catch rain water). The IBC is pretty clean and contained an agricultural bactericidal solution, mainly formaldehyde, so I'm hoping that will be okay since formaldehyde breaks down quite rapidly.

The sand I found in Santa Ana (Holcim's quarry) seems like it might do. I've done a couple of pH tests and it appears to be fairly inert if I give it a bit of a wash first. It is sold as 3mm sand but I think it has enough smaller gains to be functional. Testing drainage in a bucket showed that it filters at a reasonable rate.

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 00:12 
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help me understand a couple of things... what is IAVs? What are you using sand for?

Tagging along to see the build =)

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 00:21 
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Hi rininger85, see http://iavs.info/ for a good overview. Basically, it's a simple sand filtration/grow bed setup that aims to take advantage of the ability of the right kind of sand to act as growing media and an effective filter for the fish tank water, eliminating the need for more complex filtration methods.

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 01:34 
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how is iAV different from typical aquaponics? Just in the sense that it uses sand media instead of gravel or hydroton etc? I get the sand filtration aspect of it, there are a few people I've seen using sand filters similar to what we would use on an outdoor pool for their fish filtration, but I haven't seen sand being used as the media for the growbeds.

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 01:38 
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rininger85 wrote:
how is iAV different from typical aquaponics? Just in the sense that it uses sand media instead of gravel or hydroton etc? I get the sand filtration aspect of it, there are a few people I've seen using sand filters similar to what we would use on an outdoor pool for their fish filtration, but I haven't seen sand being used as the media for the growbeds.


There is a good explanation here:
http://iavs.info/what-iavs-is/

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 03:19 
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jholmes wrote:
rininger85 wrote:
how is iAV different from typical aquaponics? Just in the sense that it uses sand media instead of gravel or hydroton etc? I get the sand filtration aspect of it, there are a few people I've seen using sand filters similar to what we would use on an outdoor pool for their fish filtration, but I haven't seen sand being used as the media for the growbeds.


There is a good explanation here:
http://iavs.info/what-iavs-is/


I don't know if I would call it a good explanation... from what I've read the guy likes tooting his own horn about how he came up with it before aquaponics was thought up and he repeats that on every page several times, and it does talk about using sand instead of gravel or DWC and that it is beneficial due to having more surface area for beneficial bacteria and the likes... but there is a lot of fluff and re-tooting his horn again to call it a good explanation.

I don't think he has ever heard the phrase 'a picture is worth 1000 words'. I have not watched the videos in full, but I did jump around on them and it does not appear to have any pictures of this in action... just some more fluff piece about drought around the world and video of a farmer harvesting his crops... even on his "What iAVs Will Do" page it's still a bunch of words with not a single picture... if the guy wants his ideas to become popular he should either buy a camera or hire a website developer who knows how to market a concept... that is probably the real reason that iAVs has flopped and no one has heard of it... he makes claims about it being more productive than aquaponics but then uses tomatoes as an example of why iAVs is so much more successful than aquaponics, but he compares it to DWC which you can't grow tomatoes in... so yeah it'll be 100% more effective at growing tomatoes. His claims cannot be substantiated against aquaponics from the data that I've seen and his lack of proof (pictures!). He says he's not selling anything he's just disseminating the information, but his entire website seems like he's trying to get you hooked on the idea then he'll toss the catch out that for the low low LOW price of $99 you can go to his seminar and he'll tell you everything that he said on his website and you'll go home and realize you wasted your time and money because he still didn't show you the system working...

I'm open to the idea of the beneficial microbes in sand playing an important part... but where is the proof? Where are the pictures of the lush fields of plants growing hog wild in an iAV system?

So I guess I'll just sit back and watch and hope that you own a camera so you can document your iAVs to show the proof (unfortunately my aquaponics system will be up and running before then so I probably won't learn anything quick enough to change my mind about what I'm planning).

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 03:22 
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All of that and I still don't know how iAVs is different from aquaponics other than the fact that it uses sand instead of gravel/some other media form... to me I don't really care what the media is, if you are using fish to grow plants it's aquaponics... so maybe that is my issue, without a picture to see how great the sand grows things compared to aquaponics it's really not any different... it's still aquaponics with more surface area for bacteria... woohoo!

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 03:52 
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rininger85,

rininger85 wrote:
he makes claims about it being more productive than aquaponics but then uses tomatoes as an example of why iAVs is so much more successful than aquaponics, but he compares it to DWC which you can't grow tomatoes in... so yeah it'll be 100% more effective at growing tomatoes.

There has been some discussion on iAV systems on BYAP, including a lot of skepticism. But I'm looking forward to seeing how Jeff's experiments in this pan out. As far as Tomatoes and DWC... There are many examples of EXCELLENT Tomato growth in DWC systems. Many folks only do DWC and have been quite successful with Tomatoes. Here's one good example: Chatterson Farms is born! (page 88)

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 04:40 
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Hi rininger85,

I agree that it is unfortunate how the wording on the site makes it sound like a sales pitch. However, the science makes sense to me (he ran several experiments that provide some good evidence) but it's a guy in India (vkn http://aquaponicsnation.com/forums/topi ... with-iavs/) who has really shown some real life examples that are quite impressive.

I'm not sure why aquaponics seems to bring out so many passionate voices but my goal is to try out a small system and see how it goes. I'll also try a DWC system as well because, especially for leafy green type crops, it seems to provide a more efficient way of managing/harvesting the plants.

I do have a camera though and look forward to posting more as I progress! :-)

Jeff

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 04:50 
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rininger85 wrote:
All of that and I still don't know how iAVs is different from aquaponics other than the fact that it uses sand instead of gravel/some other media form... to me I don't really care what the media is, if you are using fish to grow plants it's aquaponics... so maybe that is my issue, without a picture to see how great the sand grows things compared to aquaponics it's really not any different... it's still aquaponics with more surface area for bacteria... woohoo!


I should add that I find the concept of using sand interesting from a variety of perspectives. It's cheap, readily available (at least, in theory!), and it has properties that you would think would improve the biofiltration capability over something like gravel. And I wonder about the benefits of filtering the water directly in the grow bed. What nutrient value is lost in intermediary filters?

Re the iAVs site, it's also frustrating that some of the best information is in those outdated flash videos. I offered to convert them to a more user-friendly YouTube format, but got no reply so far.

Jeff

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 06:05 
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Rininger - IavS is simply aquaponics but with sand as the media, having sand as the media forces you to do flood and drain, IavS is nothing more than aquaponics with less versatility and variation.

Yea VK used to post here before he really had anything set up, he used to tout how he was going to revolutionize everything and go commercial and bring aquaponics to all of india, he got laughed at quite a bit.
he still posts on facebook and seems to be doing pretty well with his system, he has proved that aquaponics with sand can work, but nothing he has done is any better than a standard aquaponics system unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 12:27 
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Thanks a lot Sam for that link to Chatterson Farm - my eyes are now bleeding from reading through the whole story. Wow. I was particularly impressed with his insect control. That might well be the biggest challenge here for me.

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PostPosted: Oct 11th, '16, 22:30 
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I'm in the process of setting up my system is why I'm curious. After reading through Food&Fish's thread it seems to me like having a variety of different types of media beds is the most beneficial because certain plants will grow better in certain medias, so I had already planned on having a gravel bed, a DWC, and a dirt wicking bed in the greenhouse, so I might have to try a sand media bed too. I just don't know what I'm missing from iAVs to make it different from my existing plans other than having sand instead of gravel.

Just reading through this article it seems they pretty much agree it's the same thing with the goal of using less energy... which can be accomplished in either system. They go as far as to refer to the system as "Flood and Drain" hmmm sounds familiar I think I've heard of that someplace else =)
http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/170 ... quaponics/

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