All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 423 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 29  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 04:02 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 19:29
Posts: 1213
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Gender: Female
Are you human?: yes
Location: Hartbeespoort. SOUTH AFRICA
I have decided to journal the progress of this dream from as early on as design. Perhaps it will help someone with similar hopes, conditions and challenges as mine. I once heard it said that a man is not poor for lack of money; a man is truly poor who has no dream. I do not have endless financial resources to throw at this project but I do not believe that money should determine the size of a dream. Mine is a big dream. As I write I am reminded of the verse in Zec 4:10 - Do not despise these small beginnings, for the LORD rejoices to see the work begin, to see the plumb line in Zerubbabel's hand." NLT :D I sense Him smiling on my small beginnings too.

What do I have in my hand?

Land

Tons of rocks

Slope

Fish – the best – tilapia - already acclimated to my hard farm water

Plenty of water

Matured fish water in the current reservoir

Membership to the BEST forum on the net!

Challenges?

Monkeys and those who like to “share”

Power outages without warning

Fish grow too slow. Need some Nile Tilapia cos want to produce fish too. Looking into aquiring Tilapia hornorum as possible hybrid with Mossambicus that I have to grow out males in one of the tanks. Would be an experiment.

Practical experience? Definitely challenged! : )

Vision

Have a series of ponds and growbeds built down the slope

Use gravity as much as possible in a CHIFT PIST design

Large pipe venturi drains to each growbed below. 1 per growbed. Only gravity fed.

Growbeds below each pond. Effectively 1m x 1m x 0.5m depth

Water from growbeds drained with simple loop siphon with big pipe This water is further aerated on a splash plate filled with large holes just below before falling into pond below.

Use wind power to pump cleaned water back to top pond. This means the use of one pump for a whole series of AP units. (Hopefully!) So top pond receives cleaned water from last growbeds.

Use a Flush tank right at the top to effect flood and drain by activating flush valve when certain water level reached.

Back to back units down the slope save on construction time and costs.

Sump is last and at lowest level so can be as big as needed. No need to raise and support so size not a great issue. Needs to be calculated….. Only needs to be as big as last set of growbeds? Or bigger if a series of growbeds?

All ponds painted black to increase heat naturally. (Might put black pipes on back wall of each unit to increase heat in winter. Cement in with thin screed to prevent UV damage? And paint wall black. This will be gravity fed from one pond to wall to pond - and so on - down the slope into the sump below. Again sump size in question. The top pond will have its pipes fed from the flush tank – still thinking how to do it so not to jippo flush valve action.)

System off conventional electrical grid greatly desired. Might do a back-up power system for windmill if no wind. Will see. Maybe end sump needs to be REALLY big for emergency if no pumping back up. When water gets to certain level in sump then emergency power kicks in to pump it back uphill until down to a certain level. This possible? Or maybe attach a bicycle and get some exercise! The emergency might be enough motivation!)

Cover each level with greenhouse made from electrical conduit (and plastic mesh? - monkeys) and plastic. Sides to be built up as support. Looking at solaris bricks as option but costly. Definitely pretty though! First greenhouse on top to be backed by strong wall packed with rocks and soil behind it and planted with low to medium shrubs to break wind speed coming down the hill. (Protect structure with permiculture concept.)

Only to be one entrance/exit door - greater security – down at the bottom near the house. Nice big dog to sleep nearby. Whole series of units to be surrounded by electrical fencing when can do it.

Steps or ramp inside the units to climb to top of the series of units. Greenhouse units to be constructed to allow for this.

Current progress

Clearing the site.

Digging up "the field" for planting sweet sorghum for ethanol production in the future. Harvesting lots...... and lots and lots..... of rocks to be used in building the first part of the AP system: Sump, lowest GBs and Fish Pond.

Cutting electrical conduit into 600mm sections to join as grid and bend as greenhouse roof over first unit. Sides to be built solid. Looking into best way to let in light. Don't want glass panes.

Researching best extraction fan for ventilation. And thermostat. And alternate power to operate it. I want to keep final running costs as low as possible because the end vision is commercial.

I still have a very long way to go but am really enjoying the journey.


Attachments:
THE FIELD FOR SWEET SORGHUM... LOTS OF ROCKS HARVESTED.JPG
THE FIELD FOR SWEET SORGHUM... LOTS OF ROCKS HARVESTED.JPG [ 81.4 KiB | Viewed 4848 times ]
Series2 side view showing pond slope.jpg
Series2 side view showing pond slope.jpg [ 7.68 KiB | Viewed 4845 times ]
Series2 with text.jpg
Series2 with text.jpg [ 23.83 KiB | Viewed 4835 times ]

_________________
Chelle.

The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. Ellen Parr

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
    Advertisement
 
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 04:06 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 19:29
Posts: 1213
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Gender: Female
Are you human?: yes
Location: Hartbeespoort. SOUTH AFRICA
2 pics of the site I am clearing.....


Attachments:
THE SITE.JPG
THE SITE.JPG [ 54 KiB | Viewed 4829 times ]
SLOPE OF THE SITE.JPG
SLOPE OF THE SITE.JPG [ 75.42 KiB | Viewed 4827 times ]

_________________
Chelle.

The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. Ellen Parr

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 04:37 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 01:13
Posts: 10700
Images: 0
Location: central FL
Gender: Female
Are you human?: YES at least mostly
Location: USA, Florida, Yalaha
Really cool!!!!

Ok, a few questions and suggestions for you as you are in the early stages.
1-do you have a little tiny AP system you could set up to get some practice at things like testing water quality and cycling? If not, I think it would be a really good things to do so you can gain some experience before you get too carried away. It will also be a good place for testing out your local gravel to see what kind of pH it will stick you with and try out a few plants to see what they think of your conditions etc. It can be really small and function as a fry/fingerling or quarantine system in the future.

2-what are your planned construction methods for the tanks and grow beds? Or are you still looking into the best way for that?

3-What are your temperatures like? What are your ground temperatures like? How does that relate to your desired fish? If your ground temps are too cool for your desired fish, you should probably insulate your tank/grow bed construction from the ground as it will suck all the solar heating efforts down leaving you with little gain. The ground is not really a good insulator if you are trying for a temperature different than the ground itself.

I like the way you will be able to build incrementally in sections. I do think you will probably want more grow bed space than your design suggests. Perhaps two levels of grow beds after each tank level?

_________________
Aquaponic Lynx
TCLynx Bought The Farm
Old Main System
Old 300 gallon System


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 04:42 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 01:13
Posts: 10700
Images: 0
Location: central FL
Gender: Female
Are you human?: YES at least mostly
Location: USA, Florida, Yalaha
Oh, make it easy to reach all parts of your grow beds! I like to be able to walk down both sides of a one meter wide grow bed to make planting, harvesting and tending easy.

Perhaps work out the walkways in the sketchup since it looks like you can only access the outside growbeds and the ends of the fish tanks.

_________________
Aquaponic Lynx
TCLynx Bought The Farm
Old Main System
Old 300 gallon System


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 06:53 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Aug 21st, '06, 16:07
Posts: 5323
Location: Brisbane
Gender: Male
Just so I have this straight Cyara:

You have 4 * fish ponds that are 2 metres * 1 metre * (?) depth
4 levels of 3 GBs which cover 2m * 2m and are 500mm deep
Flush and sump tank
Are you able to walk between the ponds and GBs?

Trying to work out the slope required - also will the sump tank be able to cope if/when the pump fails and all the GBs empty into it

Love the ideas you are trying to implement and follow TC's suggestion of starting up a small system ASAP :wink:

I would then do the project in stages, commissioning one pond/GB at a time and get it established before adding the next step :D

_________________
Do it - like 'Ell!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 07:08 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Oct 11th, '07, 19:43
Posts: 6687
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Not at 3 am :(
Location: Kalgoorlie
And make the sump big enough to hold all the water from the system, with all the beds filled with water - one day all the siphons will magically stop at once for some reason.

_________________
My New Commercial System - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6616
My Work - http://www.goldfieldsmc.com.au


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 21:35 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 19:29
Posts: 1213
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Gender: Female
Are you human?: yes
Location: Hartbeespoort. SOUTH AFRICA
TCLynx wrote:
Ok, a few questions and suggestions for you as you are in the early stages.
1-do you have a little tiny AP system you could set up to get some practice at things like testing water quality and cycling? If not, I think it would be a really good things to do so you can gain some experience before you get too carried away. It will also be a good place for testing out your local gravel to see what kind of pH it will stick you with and try out a few plants to see what they think of your conditions etc. It can be really small and function as a fry/fingerling or quarantine system in the future.


Yes. I think you are right. I will probably regret it if I don't. I started off wanting to do this with plastic containers.... priced them....looked around and found I had building materials available. So now must figure out again how to do it small first after all. Going to give it a lot of thought.

TCLynx wrote:
2-what are your planned construction methods for the tanks and grow beds? Or are you still looking into the best way for that?


I have many rocks and bricks available to me. Just buy in cement. I am already building other stuff and gaining experience so plan to just go for it. I have a friend who is constantly pointing out where I could go wrong in my building projects. I am currently building my fire-place in brick with stone cladding. Looking quite good - if I say so myself! :D

TCLynx wrote:
3-What are your temperatures like? What are your ground temperatures like? How does that relate to your desired fish? If your ground temps are too cool for your desired fish, you should probably insulate your tank/grow bed construction from the ground as it will suck all the solar heating efforts down leaving you with little gain. The ground is not really a good insulator if you are trying for a temperature different than the ground itself.


Warm climate here. Never thought about ground temperatures before. The fish I have are well acclimated to the farm. Can even handle winter without heating although barely eat. In summer they are voracious. I want to breed them with Nile tilapia to increase growth rate. They are tilapia mossambicus. Interesting thought about insulating from the ground temperatures. I will start researching this. Good point.

TCLynx wrote:
I like the way you will be able to build incrementally in sections. I do think you will probably want more grow bed space than your design suggests. Perhaps two levels of grow beds after each tank level?


I would be very happy to increase GBs. I thought I would be over-doing it. I have 1m x 4m x 500mm depth at each end and a 2m x 4m x 500mm depth in the middle. That gives me 8m of surface to plant. The tank is 80cm at the shallow end and 1.2m at the deep end and 6m across. I will start thinking how to re-design the beds.

Thanks TCL!

_________________
Chelle.

The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. Ellen Parr

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 21:40 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 19:29
Posts: 1213
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Gender: Female
Are you human?: yes
Location: Hartbeespoort. SOUTH AFRICA
TCLynx wrote:
Oh, make it easy to reach all parts of your grow beds! I like to be able to walk down both sides of a one meter wide grow bed to make planting, harvesting and tending easy.

Perhaps work out the walkways in the sketchup since it looks like you can only access the outside growbeds and the ends of the fish tanks.


If you look at my sketchup pic you will see that I have designed it with a reach of 1m max from all sides. The walkways between are 1m. I figure that will be enough space to be comfy. A thought I did have was to sink the paths between so that the GB's are table height. I am going to add that to my design cos it will mean less landfill to find too.

_________________
Chelle.

The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. Ellen Parr

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 22:04 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 19:29
Posts: 1213
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Gender: Female
Are you human?: yes
Location: Hartbeespoort. SOUTH AFRICA
EllKayBee wrote:
Just so I have this straight Cyara:

You have 4 * fish ponds that are 2 metres * 1 metre * (?) depth
4 levels of 3 GBs which cover 2m * 2m and are 500mm deep
Flush and sump tank
Are you able to walk between the ponds and GBs?


Hi ELB. 4 ponds 6m across and 3m wide - but the walls will be a half meter thick so effectively 5mx2m and the shallow end is 80cm and teh deep end for the venturi drains is 1.2m. Yes I can walk between the ponds and GBs cos the pond walls are so thick. I don't want to go thinner cos my late husband had a reservoir built and it was only about 30cm thick and a crack caused leaking. My fish are there now but I have to top up regularly to keep them in enough depth. The GBs are effectively 4m x 1m x500mm deep - so 8m of grow area.

EllKayBee wrote:
Trying to work out the slope required - also will the sump tank be able to cope if/when the pump fails and all the GBs empty into it


Good question! Still trying to figure what size sump to build. In my sketchup diag it is 5m x 1m x 1m deep. Probably not enough finally.

EllKayBee wrote:
Love the ideas you are trying to implement and follow TC's suggestion of starting up a small system ASAP :wink:


Yes. Will do. Sound advice.

EllKayBee wrote:
I would then do the project in stages, commissioning one pond/GB at a time and get it established before adding the next step :D


Yes. That is the plan. First the sump and then up to level with GB's and finally the pond. Each to operate as a unit properly before I go higher.

_________________
Chelle.

The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. Ellen Parr

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 22:07 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 19:29
Posts: 1213
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Gender: Female
Are you human?: yes
Location: Hartbeespoort. SOUTH AFRICA
Outbackozzie wrote:
And make the sump big enough to hold all the water from the system, with all the beds filled with water - one day all the siphons will magically stop at once for some reason.


Hi OBO. :D Ain't life grand! You reckon as big as all the series of GBs right to the top or just the lowest ones? Will the higher ponds not hold water if no topping up to initiate siphons?

_________________
Chelle.

The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. Ellen Parr

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 8th, '08, 23:58 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 01:13
Posts: 10700
Images: 0
Location: central FL
Gender: Female
Are you human?: YES at least mostly
Location: USA, Florida, Yalaha
I think what OBO meant was that you sump should be big enough to hold all the water from all the grow beds. Since the ponds/fish tanks remain at constant level, don't count them to hold extra water for their grow beds. If it is at all possible to have the sump big enough to hold enough water to fill all the grow beds you have the added benefit of great extra water storing capacity that also will help stabilize your system from sudden massive swings of pH, Nutrients, and Temperature.

Now when you first start up, you will probably only need enough water in the sump to fill the bottom set of grow beds plus some extra to account for pump operation and evaporation etc. You will want to make it so your pump can be adjusted to deal with widly varying levels in the sump. Pumps on float switches that are not very adjustable would not be good for your situation. As you add levels to the system, you can progressively add more water to the sump as needed.

_________________
Aquaponic Lynx
TCLynx Bought The Farm
Old Main System
Old 300 gallon System


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '08, 01:24 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced
User avatar

Joined: Apr 6th, '07, 19:29
Posts: 1213
Location: SOUTH AFRICA
Gender: Female
Are you human?: yes
Location: Hartbeespoort. SOUTH AFRICA
Hi TCL. Yes. OK. Makes sense. So I better make sure exactly how many I will put in the series before even starting the sump. I have 36m down the hill to play with. Each unit takes 7 meters = 28 meters plus flush tank and sump. 4 units is my max.

So 4 series of GBs all add up to 32 cubed meters of GB media. 40% is water (I think I read that somewhere) so 12.8 .... make it 13 ... cubic meters of water to be accomodated in the sump. Big sump... but big system..... not impossible. Just widen the width inside to 2m, keep the 5m length and deepen it to 1.5m and it should be safe. Including outside walls this will make the sump width 3 meters to be added to total of 31 meters down the hill plus the size of the width of the flush tank. Yip. That is it - with a little room to spare.

It's a neat thought that the extra stored water will be such a good buffer from pH swings and so on.

I will remember what you have said about the type of pump. I have no clue yet what kind of pump I will get yet. I want to use alternate energy so this will be a special project.

I can see that my next step is the little mini-system to test my pebbles and pH and just get some experience. Looking forward to it! :D :cheers:

_________________
Chelle.

The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. Ellen Parr

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '08, 03:09 
Offline
Almost divorced
Almost divorced

Joined: Dec 9th, '06, 20:31
Posts: 1079
Location: Drongen, Belgium
Gender: Male
Location: Drongen, Belgium
Excuse my ignorance,
but what could possibly cause "sudden massive swings of pH, Nutrients, and Temperature" in a so well designed system?
Temperature swings should not be a problem where all ponds and possibly all growbeds seem to be built up in massive thick walled stone.
Nutrients could swing, but massively?
rests pH: why would that swing massively?
just trying to learn here

frank


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '08, 04:01 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Dec 6th, '07, 01:13
Posts: 10700
Images: 0
Location: central FL
Gender: Female
Are you human?: YES at least mostly
Location: USA, Florida, Yalaha
Algae blooms can cause major pH and O2 swings but the amount of water might not buffer that cause so much.

You are right that in a large system like this, the benefit of more water for buffering might not be nearly so pronounced but since the system is hoping to depend on alternate power for pumping/aeration, having a huge supply of water in the system to pump up to the flush tank to flow through the system is pretty important.

_________________
Aquaponic Lynx
TCLynx Bought The Farm
Old Main System
Old 300 gallon System


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sep 9th, '08, 09:09 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Oct 11th, '07, 19:43
Posts: 6687
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Not at 3 am :(
Location: Kalgoorlie
+1 - If it is possible to build a larger water body in at the design stage do it. The more water, the more stable all parameters are.

Dont underestimate the amount of heat that can be transferred from growbeds into or out of the water in a very short amount of time. The more water the better.

My small 1000l system fluctuates by 10 deg c between day and night. The large 8000l system, fluctuates by 1 deg c.

The small system just happens to be the one having all the fish disease problems :roll:
Coincidental? I think not.

_________________
My New Commercial System - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6616
My Work - http://www.goldfieldsmc.com.au


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 423 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 29  Next

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 47 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Portal by phpBB3 Portal © phpBB Türkiye
[ Time : 0.157s | 19 Queries | GZIP : Off ]