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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 3rd, '09, 18:22 
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Nocky wrote:
also ivan if you have been over feeding the goldies make sure there is no food on the bottom of tank, uneaten food will poison your water, I lost my first lot of marron to over feeding :oops: when your pump is on if any crap in the tank sweep to the pump or better suck it out with a pond vac,


Funny that you should say.. Today trout arrived.

So I took out the PVC stormwater off-cut I put in there for the goldfishes. Guess what? It was full of dirt in there and what looks like uneaten food. Well I think food or uneaten food is the reason why the water started turning cloudy. I will resist feeding my trout for a while. maybe just a tablespoon worth to keep them from starving. Apparently they have not ate for 36hrs before they were delivered.

I will check the debris tomorrow to see if has cleared up. Wish I had a yabbie or two at the bottom of the tank clearing shit up. Have you tried putting trout with yabbies together?

Also I think I found the cause of the yellowish water. Chelated iron. I must have put too much in. The external of the pipe that meets the FT water was turning yellowish brown. So where some of the areas around the stand pipes & drain pipes.. Is too much chelated iron harmful for fishes? Will the plant absorb that and make the water less yellow or must I change out the water?

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 4th, '09, 10:49 
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Never added crap like chelated iron so have NFI Ivan, but the food would be a lot of the problem, I put Koonacs in with Trout, :cry: poor koonacs :twisted: Trout are carnivores ivan so I expect they found the koonacs delicious, but have no drama's with un eaten food with trout, they don't miss a thing, I would feed them up but watch your Ammonia, it will go up, just like starting a cycle again, slow down the feed if ammonia gets up, feeding is calculated at about 1% per fish weight, so if you have 1kg total of fish, about 100gms of food and increase as they grow

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 4th, '09, 20:41 
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Nocky wrote:
Never added crap like chelated iron so have NFI Ivan, but the food would be a lot of the problem, I put Koonacs in with Trout, :cry: poor koonacs :twisted: Trout are carnivores ivan so I expect they found the koonacs delicious, but have no drama's with un eaten food with trout, they don't miss a thing, I would feed them up but watch your Ammonia, it will go up, just like starting a cycle again, slow down the feed if ammonia gets up, feeding is calculated at about 1% per fish weight, so if you have 1kg total of fish, about 100gms of food and increase as they grow


Yeah. Well I read somewhere about adding chelated iron initially during cycling, but in hindsight, I don't think it was a good idea.

Well i did another test today.
pH - 7.6 - 7.8 (i think it is possibly going up??)
ammonia - 0.5 (just one day with trout; took like 2-3 weeks with goldfish to see 0.25; but the trout are bigger)
Nitrite - 0 (still zero; but I expect to see something shortly)
Nitrate - 0

I have salted the tank with about 2kg of salt (1000L tank) not sure of the actual ppt coz it was raining and I had to dump some water to get the level back down. So may add the balance of the 3kg pack, once I see the nitrite going up.

Anyway, looks like something is happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 4th, '09, 21:04 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 4th, '09, 22:47 
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creative1 wrote:
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Thanks creative1, yes I know you are not giving me a kiss.

Well it is my first time, so still trying to gain confidence in AP and need the support from all the experts like yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 5th, '09, 09:09 
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Looking good so far Ivan, but ammonia will go up faster, then you will get a Nitrite Spike, then Nitrate, don't stress with the spikes as is just recycling as you added more fish that crap more, as long as they are eating then they shouldn't be feeling effects of ammonia and Rites, personally I wouldn't add anything else, just let it cycle, may take a week before things start falling, only stress if fish look sick, cold wether will enable fish to handle higher levels, main concern for you is pH, may need to control that with shell grit if it keeps going up

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 5th, '09, 09:48 
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Nocky wrote:
...., main concern for you is pH, may need to control that with shell grit if it keeps going up



Shell grit wont stop the pH going up nocky, it only brings the pH up to 7.6 or so. Above that it stops dissolving. Something else in the system or source water would be the only thing making the pH rise.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 5th, '09, 09:56 
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I think 7.8 is good for Nitrosomonas right now, but would not want it to go any higher.
Might start getting dangerous for the fish.

Any thoughts on how to drop the pH? Acid? What sort of acid?

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 5th, '09, 10:07 
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No, dont touch it.

Only worry about it if it starts to go over 8.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 5th, '09, 10:56 
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Outbackozzie wrote:
Nocky wrote:
...., main concern for you is pH, may need to control that with shell grit if it keeps going up

Shell grit wont stop the pH going up nocky, it only brings the pH up to 7.6 or so. Above that it stops dissolving. Something else in the system or source water would be the only thing making the pH rise.

I stand corrected :oops:
Outbackozzie wrote:
Only worry about it if it starts to go over 8.

At least I got that right :lol:
I think the limestone wall and lime in the mortar could also have something to do with it, but then I have NFI on how to bring it down, my last system was about 8.2, but had only marron and Pygmy Perch which like pH around that level. new system is around 7.2-7.4 but never really did anything to adjust the levels, using same water and growbed filtering system with Blue Metal Medium,
Aquaculture Council WA wrote:
The preferred pH range of trout is between 6.4 and 8.4, with a pH between 7.0 and 7.5 (without rapid fluctuations) being optimal. At higher pH levels, relatively low levels of ammonia are dangerously toxic (Bromage & Shepherd 1990, Sedgwick 1985).

Tolerance of trout to variables such as ammonia, chlorine, hydrogen sulphide, suspended solids and metals (such as. aluminium, copper and cadmium) is well documented, while the water-quality criteria for optimum health in salmonids has been summarised by a number of authors, including Bromage & Shepherd (1990) and Gooley (1998).

Trout farms require a reliable water supply to provide sufficient levels of dissolved oxygen, which is affected by a number of factors, particularly temperature. For example, assuming that the dissolved oxygen of incoming water is at 100 per cent oxygen saturation levels, if incoming water is at or below 14 o C a farm requires approximately 14.3 litres of water per second per tonne of 200 gm rainbow trout (14.3 L.sec -1 .tonne -1 ).

Should the water temperature increase to 18 o C, a flow-rate of 20.9 L.sec -1 .tonne -1 is required in the culture of 200 g rainbow trout (Bromage & Shepherd 1990). In WA during summer, water demands of trout culture are very high.

The link to this source is here http://www.aquaculturecouncilwa.com/spe ... ut/culture a good read that should relieve some stress levels, but most what I have read is the higher the pH, the less tolerant to Amm and Nitrite the fish become, Big Rain coming Monday Ivan, so maybe try and stop splash back from your new wall

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 5th, '09, 11:21 
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I have applied 2 coats of limestone sealant to the top and some side surfaces of the new wall this morning, so hopefully it will stop the loose particles from dislodging themselves. When the sealant is touch dry this afternoon, or in the evening, I will put the spare piece of laserlite sheet I have over the wall near the tank.

Hopefully once the sealant on the wall has fully cured, it will not easily give out loose particles.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 5th, '09, 17:54 
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Okay. I will be leaving the system alone for the next few days, apart from feeding just a handful or two of food.

Just a quick update. Water has cleared up.
I can see the trout bolting around now.

ph still 7.8 today. Ammonia still 0.5 . Nitrite still 0. Nitrate still 0.


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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 5th, '09, 18:09 
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Give them extra food if they will take it. Nice looking water, and good results.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 6th, '09, 18:02 
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Tested the water this evening again.

pH 7.8
Ammonia 1
Temp 15degC

If I am reading the ammonia chart correctly, the system is at the edge of being bad for fish health.

Should I stop feeding them for a day or two?

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 Post subject: Re: Ivan's First System
PostPosted: Jul 6th, '09, 19:13 
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Yup, no more food for 24 hours, retest.

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