Simo's first aquaponics system; Bullsbrook WA

Simo

I have salted tank to 1 ppt and plan to increase to 3ppt on advice form SP expert

pH 8

Temp 15 C

all other readings zero

I may just do minimal feeds and monitor readings.

RupertofOZ

Simo wrote:

I added 4kg of garden lime (crushed limestone/ calcium carbonate) to my water yesterday as advised and it immediatly went all cloudy so I couldn't see my fish any more, which I was expecting. What I was not expecting was that the pH went from 7 to 8 in a very short period of time, I did not think this would happen as I was told it was a buffer and since my system was neutral I didn't think it would disolve untill the water became acidic.

Shell grit, or oyster shells dissolve slowly in acidic conditions... and buffer as a "slow release" self-modulating buffer...

Crushed/powered Calcium Carbonate (or any other carbonate/bicarbonate buffer)...will dissolve immediately... and 4kg was a massive dose... Not surprised your pH went from 7 -8....

Why did you feel it necessary to adjust your pH now???

Ok I read the bit above about Silver Perch liking "hardness".... but alkalinity and hardeness are not necessarily the same thing...

Hardness is often more a measure of calcium and magnesium "salts".... alkalinity is more a measure of pH..

And while it's common place for Silver Perch in pond based aquaculture to be grown out in ponds that have been "limed"... the liming is done (usually prior to filling the pond) to promote phosphorus release... for algael bloom generation... and for encouragement of micro-organism succession...

Rather than for specific pH requirements of Silver Perch...

My Silvers are growing just fine... as are those in many other member systems... at a pH more like 6.0 - 6.4...

The problem with pH 8.0... is nutrient lock-out for plant uptake... not a factor in pond based aquaculture.... and IMO... prolonged nitrite spike during cycling...

Simo

pH has come down a bit to 7.8

Temp 13 degrees Celcius

All other parameters are zero.

All fish still alive.

I might add some hummonia soon so speed it up a bit. How much for 3500L?

What do you think?

Simo

Quote:

Why did you feel it necessary to adjust your pH now???

Ok I read the bit above about Silver Perch liking "hardness".... but alkalinity and hardeness are not necessarily the same thing...

Hardness is often more a measure of calcium and magnesium "salts".... alkalinity is more a measure of pH..

And while it's common place for Silver Perch in pond based aquaculture to be grown out in ponds that have been "limed"... the liming is done (usually prior to filling the pond) to promote phosphorus release... for algael bloom generation... and for encouragement of micro-organism succession...

The advice on the 4kg of garden lime was from the silver perch expert, who I got the fish from, due to the soft nature of the rain water I am using. It was not to adjust the pH but to act as a rapid buffer for the night/day pH swings in a tank/pond with algae as he said that SP will grow much faster and healthier in water with alot of sun and a good aglae growth. He also said that the natural limestone, along with salt, not only hardens the water which the SP prefer but also adds numerous benificial trance elements.

This is the method he uses to grow SP in tanks and ponds in his very successfull aquaculture venture. In saying that however he is only doing aquaculture and is not an expert in aquaponics which is why I posed the question before adding the cruched limestone, unfortunatly I am too impatient to wait for several schools of thought before acting.

No harm done anyway, pH dropping and fish still alive, I just can't see them any more.

earthbound

Thats the problem with advise from aquaculture experts and hydroponic experts. AP isn't either of those, and in reality it's not really the combination of both of them, that's just the simplest way to explain it to people with no idea what AP is.

My advise....

DO NOTHING......!

The number one killer of fish in AP systems is human fiddling....

Simo

Freakin bell siphons.

Just when I think I have my premature leaking problem fixed I go back out to the system in the morning and the problem has returned. I have tried adjusting the size, shape and length of every single part of the freaking bell siphon and I still cannot get the bell to completely drain of water once the initial siphon action has ended. I understand the principle and design and even used the measurements found in this very helpful study

http://www.soils.wisc.edu/sswmp/pubs/9.12.pdf

but still I cannot fix it.

Today I dropped my bell siphons to the bottom of my tank for the fish to play with and built a prototype of the Affnan bell siphon (google it) using a 32mm to 20mm reducer to create the Bernoulli effect.

Worked first time every time all afternoon. Tomorrow I will build 2 more to suit the height of my growbed flood drain cycle that will also be a bit neater then the bastardised version I built today but hopefully work just as well.

Bless you Affnan I was about to go primal on system with a chainsaw when finally I found something simple that works (hopefully)

Simo

earthbound wrote:

Thats the problem with advise from aquaculture experts and hydroponic experts. AP isn't either of those, and in reality it's not really the combination of both of them, that's just the simplest way to explain it to people with no idea what AP is.

My advise....

DO NOTHING......!

The number one killer of fish in AP systems is human fiddling....

Do nothing.......

That is so simple that it just might work!

Can I still pee in my tank.... Just once.... please?

earthbound

Only if you've been drinking... :wink:

ivansng

Simo wrote:

Can I still pee in my tank.... Just once.... please?

If you do consider going down this path, and since you might be tempted to pee a few more times into the tank as it seems your fishes are not producing enough ammonia, do remember that it takes a while for fresh pee to convert to ammonia. Not sure about the actual time though, as I have not tried it myself. TCLynx might be able to advise.

But do be careful since you now have fishes and need to consider your ammonia levels.

Outbackozzie

After one application, test daily, and no more applications until the ammonia drops to zero.

A fully cycled system can take under 2 days to do this, uncylced can take well over a week.

Simo

Fish still alive

pH 7.8

Temp 13 C

All others zero

Built two Affnan siphons today which are the correct height for my grow beds. Very easy to do, worked perfectly straight away, I can't recommend them enough so much simpler and more reliable than freakin bell siphons with water traps and air break tubes. Pictures below.

Attachment:

SDC10436.JPG [ 190.3 KiB | Viewed 1208 times ]

All three parts prior to assembly. The bell is 50mm, the funnel shaped stand pipe is made from a 32mm to 25mm reducer with a 20mm joiner shoved in the 25mm end effectively creating a 32mm to 20mm reducer. Any similar ratio of internal pipe diameter reduction would have the same effect of creating a vortex once the water starts flowing down the funnel standpipe which sucks the air out of the top of the bell creating the siphon action. Siphon is broken by air entering the crenulations and the water in the bell is free to drain as there are no water traps.

Attachment:

SDC10440.JPG [ 192.41 KiB | Viewed 1205 times ]

Top down view of the funnel standpipe in the bell housing. I know the gap around stand pipe for water to flow is very small but trust me this siphon sucks just as hard as the traditional bell siphons I made and works even at low GB inflow rates.

Attachment:

SDC10442.JPG [ 171.41 KiB | Viewed 1209 times ]

Assembled unit looking very neat.

Simo

Outbackozzie wrote:

After one application, test daily, and no more applications until the ammonia drops to zero.

A fully cycled system can take under 2 days to do this, uncylced can take well over a week.

Thanks OBO, I was wondering what the method was to make sure you don't overdose the FT

Burnsy

Simo wrote:

All three parts prior to assembly. The bell is 50mm, the funnel shaped stand pipe is made from a 32mm to 25mm reducer with a 20mm joiner shoved in the 25mm end effectively creating a 32mm to 20mm reducer. Any similar ratio of internal pipe diameter reduction would have the same effect of creating a vortex once the water starts flowing down the funnel standpipe which sucks the air out of the top of the bell creating the siphon action. Siphon is broken by air entering the crenulations and the water in the bell is free to drain as there are no water traps.

Simo, what is the horizontal pipe glued into the botom of the bell for? Is it drilled through - does not look to be from the picture? Guess I better have a Google and read

Outbackozzie

Thats the drain burnsy - he runs it out the side of the growbed, instead of out the bottom.

Just one dose Simo

Pee is pretty gentle compared to normal urea.

Burnsy

Outbackozzie wrote:

Thats the drain burnsy - he runs it out the side of the growbed, instead of out the bottom.

Ahh, I see the elbow now when I look closely at the picture. That would be a right pain not being able to lift the bell I reckon? Would also mean the grow bed would never totally drain?

I checked out the video from Affan, he has an interesting blogg.

Backyard Aquaponics
A place to discuss aquaponics