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PostPosted: Sep 27th, '09, 09:39 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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If the humonia is aged (as in sealed in a bottle for a few weeks before applying to the system) the urea should already have converted to ammonia and therefore, you should be able to add some and then let it circulate through the system then you should be able to test and see if there is an ammonia reading. How much have you been adding?
I fishless cycled my big system using about 500 ml of aged bottled pee per dose. At that point in time my big system was around 2000 liters. I might suggest dosing with 200-300 ml or one small aged pee and then after the pump circulates the water around the system do an immediate test to see if there is an ammonia reading. Since you have fish, you don't want to dose too much. I would say dose enough to get a reading under 1 ppm and then wait till it is 0 before dosing again. Once your nitrite levels start showing, I would quit any additional ammonia dosing and hang tight since nitrite usually takes longer to get past in cool weather. Hopefully you get a chance to see nitrate before your plants suck them all down.

Hang in there, the water will clear as the bio-slime build up in the grow beds.

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PostPosted: Sep 27th, '09, 10:13 
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In your adjustments with flooding and draining, don't forget about water turnover. Typically I have been told that you need to do one entire water turnover per hour.

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PostPosted: Sep 28th, '09, 07:26 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
Simo wrote:
Should I increase my flow rate with the existing pipe in the mean time then? This would probably make it a 30 min fill 30 min drain, is this ok?

Not sure why a faster flow rate would increase you fill time????

But it wouldn't matter if you are running siphons...

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The only problem may be that the siphons may not cut out if the inflow is equal to the outflow. I can adjust my inflow with the grow bed taps but the outflow is set due to the 20mm outlet size.

So are you saying that your drainpipes from your growbeds are 20mm... or that your siphons drain into a 20mm return line to the sump....

If the later... then I'd advise you to replace the return line with 40mm.... if the growbeds have individual returns to the sump... or 90mm if the return line is common to all growbeds...


My System is CHIFT PIST so if the water flows out of the FT faster it flows into the GB faster therefore a faster fill time and slower draintime.

The GB tank came with a side outlet of 20mm

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PostPosted: Sep 28th, '09, 07:29 
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TCLynx wrote:
If the humonia is aged (as in sealed in a bottle for a few weeks before applying to the system) the urea should already have converted to ammonia and therefore, you should be able to add some and then let it circulate through the system then you should be able to test and see if there is an ammonia reading. How much have you been adding?
I fishless cycled my big system using about 500 ml of aged bottled pee per dose. At that point in time my big system was around 2000 liters. I might suggest dosing with 200-300 ml or one small aged pee and then after the pump circulates the water around the system do an immediate test to see if there is an ammonia reading. Since you have fish, you don't want to dose too much. I would say dose enough to get a reading under 1 ppm and then wait till it is 0 before dosing again. Once your nitrite levels start showing, I would quit any additional ammonia dosing and hang tight since nitrite usually takes longer to get past in cool weather. Hopefully you get a chance to see nitrate before your plants suck them all down.

Hang in there, the water will clear as the bio-slime build up in the grow beds.


I have probably been adding too little for 4500L, I will add more today and see what happens

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PostPosted: Sep 28th, '09, 07:31 
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ivansng wrote:
In your adjustments with flooding and draining, don't forget about water turnover. Typically I have been told that you need to do one entire water turnover per hour.


I can only turn over my tank volume every 2 hours but I have a very low stock density, only 98 fingerlings in 4500L so hopefully this will be OK.

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PostPosted: Sep 28th, '09, 09:36 
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Simo wrote:
ivansng wrote:
In your adjustments with flooding and draining, don't forget about water turnover. Typically I have been told that you need to do one entire water turnover per hour.


I can only turn over my tank volume every 2 hours but I have a very low stock density, only 98 fingerlings in 4500L so hopefully this will be OK.


I think you should be fine for now, but do bear this in mind as you make changes to your system like adding more fishes, adding more growbeds, adjusting flood and drain timings, etc...

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PostPosted: Sep 28th, '09, 12:23 
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Finally got an ammonia reading of 0.25 ppm today.

Water is looking more green cloudy from algae today when it had been cream cloudy from limestone before. Should I stop feeding the fish while the water is green? I think Faye suggested this before, why?

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PostPosted: Sep 28th, '09, 18:09 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Because you cant see if any food is sitting on the bottom.

Food decomposing on the bottom of tanks is one of the causes of new system fish deaths, and old systems too I suppose.

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PostPosted: Sep 28th, '09, 21:52 
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Any uneaten feed just provides more nutrients for the algae to grow... :wink:

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PostPosted: Oct 1st, '09, 19:55 
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I'm not sure what is happening with my system, I finally get a small reading of 0.25 ppm of ammonia and it disappears almost over night with out producing and nitrites or nitrates.

I normally test first thing in the morning and the pH has been 7.4 and Ammoninia 0.25ppm, later in the day the pH is generally highter at around 8.

Today temp 13 C, pH 8, Ammo 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0 at midday.

The tank is green at the moment and I have stopped feeding the fish but I have not seen any fish since the day I added the 4 kg of crushed limestone as a buffer and the water went cloudy so I am not sure if they are still in there. I was only feeding as small amount of food anyway as I thought with cold water temps they might not be feeding much. Over the last 2 days I have seen the larger pieces of fish food deposited on the the fly wire I have under my growbed in flow taps.

I only have 98 SP fingerlings in 4500L

Questions:

Do you think my fish are still alive? I have not found any floaters and I scoop the bottom of the tank from time to time and no dead fish come up, I also fully open my taps every day or so to make sure no dead fish are stuck in the pipes ( I use a SLO). I have not had a significant spike in any water readings. Do dead fingerlings always float?

Could the limestone buffer (calcuim carbonate) I added be buffering my ammonia before it can be converted to nitrites? I added this on the advice of a SP aquaculture expert but it would be an advantage for him to buffer nutrients but a disadvantage in aquaponics.

What would you do in my situation?


All advice welcome

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PostPosted: Oct 1st, '09, 20:04 
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pH is a diurnal process Simo... particularly when algae is present...

The algae will produce oxygen during the day... but consume it and release carbon dioxide suring the night... effectively producing "carbonic acid"... hence your pH reading will always be lower in the early morning, especially around dawn...

You'll also find that your DO levels are the lowest just before dawn as well... which is why DO and pH monitoring are critical in algael bloom management of pond aquaculture...

In ponds... if you go into the night with low DO... you can wake to a pond of dead fish at dawn... unless you aerate through the night...

With regard to your limestone...and adjusting the pH... might just be better to leave it alone and wait for the pH to move as the system starts to mature... then perhaps address a buffer then...

P.S ... buffers act on pH... not ammonia as such... although pH can/will affect your bacterial conversion of the ammonia...

Don't stress about not having fed your fish for a while... and the dead ones don't always float...


don't scrap the bottom too often though... Silver Perch are easily stressed... make sure you keep your salt levels to about 1ppt...

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PostPosted: Oct 1st, '09, 23:22 
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+1

Also.... algae and other aquatic plants like to feed directly on ammonia, so it may be sucking it right up before it converts to 'ites or 'ates. Shading would be good to combat algae, but that would lower temperatures. *sigh*

I would pump as much water as possible through the GB as long as you still get complete draining. This gives more oxygenation and more opportunity for the algae to get filtered out. It should help with fish health and ph stability as well. A bubbler would be great as well.

I think feed showing up in the growbed indicates excess feed, so I would cut back a bit. Also, cutting back feed should help clear the water, although much of that may be rock dust. Speculation: A few percent of the feed might get through naturally, especially with murky water, but if you are getting 10% or more landing in the growbed, cut back.....unless you think the big pieces were just too big for the fish.

Dead fish sometimes sink, sometimes float. Generally they will float as they bloat, but that involves decay and adds ammonia and other decay products to the water, so it is better to get them out sooner. I would think that since food comes out the SLO that any submerged dead fish would do so as well, so I think they are alive.

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PostPosted: Oct 2nd, '09, 07:53 
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Thanks for the reasurrance guys, it is difficult when you cannot see the fish. I will not be adding powdered limestone again it is too stressful not seeing what is going on in the bottom of the tank.

Should I start to add aged hummonia to the FT again to get the ammonia back up? I can't see 98 tiny SP making a significant difference in 4500L

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PostPosted: Oct 2nd, '09, 08:53 
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No humonia... I'd just let the water clear a little... make sure you retest your ammonia/nitrite and post them... then we can advice when to start feeding again...

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PostPosted: Oct 2nd, '09, 16:02 
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Sample taken at midday

Temp 15 C
pH 8.2
Amm 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

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