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 Post subject: Ivan's future 3rd system
PostPosted: Dec 11th, '09, 14:59 
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Well since we have not got down to completing the backyard after we move in about 5 years ago, and with the new addiction, AP seems like a good solution to finish the backyard off (or at least start doing so).

Intention is to have a 2000L BYAP tank to act as a sump tank as well as an ornamental fish pond with koi and goldfishes... possibly also consider some form of spillway or waterfall into the sump tank...

Another 1000L IBC will be a fish tank for more edible fishes, possibly silver perch....

2 BYAP growbeds plus 11 half barrels... Barrels will be for fruit trees (dwarf hopefully) and some climbing vine plants as I will be leaning some mesh against the fence for the plants to grow on...

Will be having the system on a flood and drain with timer... possibly also have an indexing valve (from Rupe) so that the sump tank/fish pond do not drop in level by too much each time the beds are flooded...

With the indexing valve, the pump can also be a smaller pump... thinking of maybe a 4500L/hr pump... and only flood 500L growbed (or equivalent in barrels) each time on a 15mins ON cycle... 4 way indexing valve... so should cover all the growbeds/barrels quite easily...

Concerns are
1) if the IBC is hooked to one of the outlet of the indexing valve, and SLO drain overflow into the growbed nearest to it, 15 mins may not be sufficient to turn over the IBC volume at the head height...

2) The yellow line shows the north... in winter the barrels and growbed near the fence may not get much sun...

Open for comments and advise on any other things I can look at.... as I am running out of space in my backyard, and I think this is the last system... (or least pocket wise)...


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PostPosted: Dec 11th, '09, 15:39 
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nice Ivan,i'm looking forward to your progress,especially with the dwarf fruit trees as i'm thinking of something similar ( but not as big ). drew


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PostPosted: Dec 12th, '09, 23:51 
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Drew, I am still some time away from putting the barrels in... but will certainly post the progress..

Guys, also considering putting a greenhouse in possibly for two growbeds... but would like to hear comments and advice about having a greenhouse in winter and also in summer... mainly what advantages are there for having a greenhouse and if there are any disadvantages??? Thanks.

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PostPosted: Dec 13th, '09, 08:57 
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Good to see you playing with sketchup Ivan..

They might not get much sun up there in winter, have you thought about putting the growbeds down the bottom where the fish tank is, having a burried sump tank, perhaps IBC, then stick the 2000L up the top, run it as a chift pist? You could also have another IBC or two at the top, water pumps from sump into top IBC, SLO (solid lift overflow) into 2000L tank, into beds..

Just looks like nicer sunlight down the bottom, well, nicer sun everywhere except that top fence.

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PostPosted: Dec 13th, '09, 09:46 
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Yeah Joel.... Sketchup is a great tool for visualisation... I have changed the layout at least 10 times before posting...

Played around with the shadow/sun and a greenhouse... only problem is I need to model my patio and shed in also to get a full idea of the shadow casting/sunlight... the shadow/sun casting is of a july 12noon sun...

Well it is preference for the fish tank/pond to be below because the brown looking paved area happens to be our patio area, hence the koi pond idea... but yeah I do agree that sunlight is better down below...

Maybe the barrels near the fence can be used for plants that go dormant in winter... I presume they do not need much sun if they are dormant??


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PostPosted: Dec 19th, '09, 20:29 
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Well went away and did some redesigning on the computer...

I have incorporated a greenhouse in my 3rd future system design... It is the translucent looking shed..
Plan to have 1x 1000L FT and 2x 500L GB based on the BYAP kits inside the greenhouse...

Outside the greenhouse as seen... a 2000L FT as sump/koi tank... plus 1x 500L GB and 6x half barrels... (600L)

As stated earlier, during winter the back fence provide too much shade... hence where possible I have moved the GB as far from the fence as possible... like the greenhouse...

Here's the operating plan... In winter, the system in the greenhouse will operate on its own via a pump in the tank....
In summer, via turning set of ball valves and turning off the pump, the water will be pumped from the 2000L sump tank to the growbeds, the growbeds will drain to the 1000L fish tank in the greenhouse, the 1000L FT will SLO overflow drain back to the sump tank... it is a version of CHIFT PIST during summer, except the water is pumped to the growbeds instead of the fish tank... Not the most ideal, but I figured should be alright...

Comments??


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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '10, 00:17 
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Redone the future 3rd system design... Inspired by OBO's use of IBCs...

Fish tank/sump will be a 2000L BYAP tank. Intention is to stock with silver perch and koi, as its purpose is also an ornamental tank...

1 IBC tank on higher ground, intention is to stock with trout during winter. Solid overflow into blue barrels of either half height or 3/4 height...

Growbeds - 1x BYAP growbed. 4x full height IBCs (1000L) growbeds.

Mature system stocking of 100 fishes in 2000L tank, 50 fishes into 1000L IBC...

Will be using the spider (or its variants) to distribute water pumped from the sump to two IBCs growbeds at a time, and the third cycle would be to the 500L BYAP growbed & IBC fish tank. 15mins on, 15mins off...

I also liked OBO's idea of not fully draining the IBCs, so the IBC growbeds are likely to be at least half filled with water already...

Need help/advice on
1) what size pressure pipe (& spider) will be suitable?? Would 25mm be too small??
2) Considering using a Laguna 7500 and apart from pumping water to the growbeds, I would like to redirect some of its flow via a venturi and create aeration and swirl in the sump tank...

Comments/inputs would be much appreciated... as I may have forgotten something ... or stuffed up something...


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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '10, 00:57 
So, you're going to be pumping to two pairs of IBC's... half filled/drained... with two seperate cycles and the 500L BYAP growbed & IBC fish tank... (which overflows to the barrels)...with another cycle...

With a 4 port outlet valve... that would leave a spare port/cycle to pump to the 2000L sump/fish tank.... but would you really need to do so.... with all beds draining back to the sump/tank anyway???

The pairs of IBC will require about 800L each cycle to fill... the BYAP bed about 300L...

You could probably do it with 25mm... depending on length of plumbing, and head loss/pump flow...

A 40mm would push the water quicker... which might be better for the IBC tank... and overflow to the blue barrels...

You could go a 6 port valve... and cycle each bed & the IBC tank indiviually.... but this would lengthen the cycle times... probably not a good idea for the IBC fish tank...

I'd go a 4 port valve... but I'd also go with 60 fish in the 2000L.... and 40 in the IBC tank... particularly as the IBC is intended for fast growing, heavy feeding trout, and will primarily be filtered by the 4 barrels...

I'd also be aerating the IBC fish tank... :wink: ... with a 4 outlet airpump... and maybe an Otto for the sump/tank...


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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '10, 08:28 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
With a 4 port outlet valve... that would leave a spare port/cycle to pump to the 2000L sump/fish tank.... but would you really need to do so.... with all beds draining back to the sump/tank anyway???


Well no... the intention is to have a bypass line from the pump and divert some of the flow during each cycle back into the 2000L tank to create additional aeration via a venturi and also swirl the tank around a bit so that solids can be removed during that cycle to the growbeds... The 4th port would be blanked/spare...

Just not sure than a 7500L Laguna maxflow pump would have sufficient flow to be able to fill the growbeds each cycle and provide the swirl effect effectively...
http://www.creativepumps.com.au/zpumps/laguna/laguna_maxflo_pumps.htm

Aeration will definitely be considered...

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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '10, 08:50 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
I'd go a 4 port valve... but I'd also go with 60 fish in the 2000L.... and 40 in the IBC tank... particularly as the IBC is intended for fast growing, heavy feeding trout, and will primarily be filtered by the 4 barrels...


Agree with the IBC... I think 50 in a IBC tank is pushing it ...

As for the 2000L with 60 fishes... I would have thought that with a mature system, this could be stocked higher than 60...

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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '10, 12:44 
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Good to see working Ivan, Did I miss the second system? I thought you were going to start one then the Mrs was going to stop you :think:

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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '10, 14:53 
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Nocky wrote:
Good to see working Ivan, Did I miss the second system? I thought you were going to start one then the Mrs was going to stop you :think:


Well I finished my second system but it does not seem to be performing too well...
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6275&p=227096#p227096

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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '10, 15:51 
But it's NOT a mature system... it's a proposed, uncycled system... :wink:


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PostPosted: Apr 5th, '10, 16:20 
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RupertofOZ wrote:
But it's NOT a mature system... it's a proposed, uncycled system... :wink:


Agreed. The numbers of 100 fishes for fish tank and 50 fishes for IBC tank I posted was based on a mature system.
Is that okay??

In the first year of the system, I will be stocking the system to half the proposed mature system amount, possibly less.

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PostPosted: Apr 7th, '10, 12:07 
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If you are going to use IBCs and you want them to last be sure to cover them to keep the UV off them. My 2 IBCs that are outside next to my fence storing water have got very brittle after being in semi-sun for the last 2-3 years.

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