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PostPosted: Dec 23rd, '11, 23:33 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Have a pleasant Crīstesmæsse/Dies Natalis Solis Invicti/коледе/day off/or whatever else floats your boat.

May you all be extra happy, and extra nice to kids for a bit.

And dont drink too much.

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '11, 01:05 
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Happy Saturnalia BWII!!

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '11, 02:14 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Oh no!

Did I miss one. I hope that doesn't mean I'll rot in O le nu'u-o-nonoa!

I'm pretty sure I'll be fine. My path is to roam the earth, jump starting any car that has it's bonnet up and it's hazard lights on, regardless of what the problem actually is.

I dont know cars, but I can use jumper leads, so I do.

It's a bit like leaches and old school medicine.

"Hmm, all your round, rubber, road touching things have fallen off. Not to worry, I have a set of jumper leads!"

Just quietly, I don't think the god(s) know much about cars either, so I'm guessing/hoping it's only the sentiment that counts.

I guess time will tell (or not)


Boomshanka (or not)

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '11, 02:52 
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Enjoy your holidays BW.

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '11, 04:03 
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Merry !

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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '11, 20:09 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I thought I run "I want a very low energy use system" through the invention engine and came up with this....

sorry for the lack of drawing, but windows just crapped itself as I was nearly finished a sketchup of it so I gave up and went back to linux to post this anyway.

Given the success of all the systems in the BYAP system trials, I figured it might be a bit more viable to run a system constant flood.

I realize the 15 minutes on 45 off of a standard BYAP system is probably a bit better, but as a low power compromise this might work.

Fill a 1000 L fishtank to full.
Add a float tap for topup water so it's always full.(slow trickle from mains would probably be ok, but from a refill tank if you are worried) or do it manually if that's what you do, but you need to make sure the water couldnt fall by more than around 5 cm before you did a topup or the plants would suffer.
Now put a 500 L grow bed next to it, and another next to that inline
Run a SLO from the fish tank so that it runs between the two grow beds and distributes water to them both.
Keep ALL plumbing below the water line of the fish tank. This means the water would need to enter through a buried 90mm PVC pipe full of holes, and exit through something similar to reduce drag.
Create a return flow back to the fish tank from the opposite ends of the grow beds to the water entry point.
Make it so that the return pipe runs for 500mm or so inside the fishtank.
Now place a powerhead deep into the tube at the point where the water returns to the fish tank.

My powerhead cost 12 dollars, runs at 13 watts, and moves 5000LPH. The 8 watt one moved 3000LPH

Powerheads cant push water uphill, but they move a stack of water around as long as they don't have to lift.

A solar system that only needed a round 8 watts to move 1000LPH would cost a fraction of the cost for a normal system to be solar powered.

a normal system would require

a decent sized pump ...say 1600LPH to deal with the 500mm lift and still turn over the water every hour.

a solar panel of around 100watts to allow for some excess to be stored for over night, then a little more to make sure there was enough to run for a few days of cloudy weather. so say 110 watts plus a bit for inverter losses.

$065 for a 1600LPH pump
$420 for a 120 watt panel at around $3.50/watt
$200 for a deep cycle battery to store the backup power.
-------
$685


or around a third of that for a system that doesn't need to lift water.

Aeration is created my the surface of your water changing over, so as long as you have the flow of water churning your tank there will be plenty of aeration.

If you wanted to add additional air for whatever reason, you would need to add it to both systems so the number should still look good for this low power design.

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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '11, 20:42 
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Love the idea.
Without additional aeration you wouldn't be able to support many fish would you?
Could you just use the air to push the water instead of the power head ?
how many watts do small-medium air pumps cost ?

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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '11, 21:48 
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Great idea, would conceivably remove the need for a sump completely while retaining CHIFT.
As more people change to CF it'll be interesting to see what plants do well in it.
My Papaya in CF finally fell over today in the CF bed, roots rotted away completely.
I'm redesigning my system at the moment and and considering splitting part of it off and running with what you describe above.
Potentially a great idea for low power off-grid setups!

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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '11, 22:54 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Yeah, no doubt some things dont like constant flood, but there seems to be stacks that do. My lettuce seem to love it. They are in NFT tube that are around half full of slow moving water and have no complaints at all. Rocket seems to love it as well.

But that idea is the exact exact oppisite of my system. I run a 3000LPH 24/7 pump with around 150L of water :oops:

Leaving my system with a carbon elephant print in it's wake.

I cant find my timer :)

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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '11, 23:00 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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DuiNui wrote:
Great idea, would conceivably remove the need for a sump completely while retaining CHIFT.
As more people change to CF it'll be interesting to see what plants do well in it.
My Papaya in CF finally fell over today in the CF bed, roots rotted away completely.
I'm redesigning my system at the moment and and considering splitting part of it off and running with what you describe above.
Potentially a great idea for low power off-grid setups!



it might be worth trying the same variety again in CF but mound up a little media so it's a little more out of the water.

I was thinking about adding a step to my grow bed so I could try something similar ie picture a babies bath with the bottom cut out. Sit it on your grow bed and fill it with media, them plant your Papaya in the new raised section.

It could be all it takes.

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PostPosted: Dec 26th, '11, 23:26 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I've spoken to a lot of aquarium shop people and a lecturer of fluid dynamics about it, and they all agree that the thing the bubbles do is create a current that flows from the bottom, up along the path of the bubbles, then down the sides back to start again.

But they all say its the massive changer over of water at the top that does the aeration.

People see the surface area of the bubbles and think it's a lot, and it is, but not as much as the surface changing in turbulent flow constantly. According to everyone I've spoken to, as long as your surface is moving you get massive gaseous exchange because the exchange only occurs to a very shallow level. (don't quote me but something like .2 mm deep or something) [A] still pond has a lot of oxygen rich water right at the top, but only at the top.

But good luck getting earthbound to dust off the dissolved O2 meter out to test it :)

One very good thing about running extra air, is that you then have two systems as backup to each other if one falls over.

So my system is total over kill because my [150]L of water has a 3000LPH pump AND a 5000LPH powerhead. My fish could have emphysema and still be fine :)

Actually they probably do, not from smoking, but from my nitrite spikes, and trying to poison them with that poison bush I put them under, then running their tank dry 4 times in as many months, they probably need all the help they can get.

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PostPosted: Dec 27th, '11, 00:22 
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BullwinkleII wrote:
I cant find my timer :)


There's your next project, synced via GPS to maintain accuracy, of course :)

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PostPosted: Dec 27th, '11, 00:40 
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Here's a worthwhile little project that gets some points for neatness, some more for coolness, and some for only costing a few bucks. nat's one blue barrel and a $20 pump

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PostPosted: Dec 27th, '11, 00:55 
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I was thinking more specifically on the electronics side of things, but yeah, Nat's "1 barreller" is cool :)

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PostPosted: Dec 27th, '11, 01:08 
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DuiNui wrote:
I was thinking more specifically on the electronics side of things, but yeah, Nat's "1 barreller" is cool :)


Yeah sorry.

I did understand your post, but I was reading that post on nat's blue barrel so posted randomly :)

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