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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 20th, '11, 15:28 
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Are you planning on painting the inside plywood/OSB with some water resistant paint? That stuff will soak up all the humidity and swell right up in places. The end fans and ventilation will probably will keep the humidity down some, but might want to think about protecting the plywood.


I will cover tham with heat mirror foils. This on one hand will block hunidity and reflect heat to that wanted to escape. ( Why its not there? Money. :P )

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I think I get the elbow taps idea. An elbow with a rubber ring that you can swivel to get the right height on each bed?


Elbow-taps
Things that are important to make it work:
- No preasure on the irrigation line, water comes by gravity! (CHIFT-PIST)
- Use thick pipes, because water by gravity needs thicker pipes and thicker pipes have bigger elbows which gives you easier controll at the end. Also thicker pipes are more tolerant on faulty leveling ;)
- Rubber rings is a must becaues you cant glue the pipes ;)



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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 22nd, '11, 03:52 
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friday

Ph: 8,5
Am: 3
NO2: 0
NO3: 0

Saturday:

ph: 9
Am: 3
NO2: 0
NO3: 0

PH is definety risingt tomorrow I will ad a cup of Hydrochloric acid, I want to bring it down to 7,5-8.

I have made a video today morning, but you have to wait till tomorow to se it :/

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 22nd, '11, 04:53 
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pH is rising. I wonder why. Can it be the gravel? This is a real pain and I share your problem. putting acid in can make things worse. pH just bounces back up in no time and can land up higher than it was so beware... What's the pH of the water you used to fill the system? Will follow with interest.

Thanks for the video on the elbow irrigation taps. Now I just need to find 40mm elbows with rubber rings...not so easy here about :dontknow:

Have you considered putting some safety overflow pipes on the growbeds in case a siphon blocks or sticks? Even have one on your Fish tank in case your slo blocks up...

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 22nd, '11, 13:33 
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- Source water ph: 8,5
- Gravel should be little on the acidis side.
- Liaflor (hydroton) is ph neutral

I decided to remeasure everithing before than I'll decide.

Rising PH could be a sign of starting bacterial activity too.

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 22nd, '11, 14:35 
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I measured everithing again, here are the results:


Source well water: ph 8

System:
ph: 9
am: 3
no2: 0
no3: 0

I have some rain water reserves (~250 liters)
ph: 6
am: 3
no2: 0
no3: 0


So what to do?

Options:
1. wait, do nothing.
2. add Hydrochloric acid, pray that it wont bounce back.
3. add the rainwater as topup.

Please vote!


- Affnan has no owerflows, I trust im.
- I added some shade cloth on the front. The rocks where over 40C yesterday and a seedlings didn't like it.
- Plants are rocketing, they really injoy the unlimited water supply;)
- I have seen some radish seeds close to the surface. They are germinating. Little yellow leafes also visible.

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 22nd, '11, 15:22 
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I made two little tests.

I have spare gravel and hydroton as well.

The first system is a little model of the existing gravel + hydroton + water from the system. I added 0,5 dl of vinegar to it to see what happens with the ph. (i know i cant ad vinegar to the system but its an acid and for testing its perfect.)

The seccond system is gravel in pure vinegar. Here I want to check thet the gravel is not alcaline. If I see bubbling or errosion its alkaline, and we have a reason for high ph ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 22nd, '11, 16:53 
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After 2 hours:
- first test system is on ph 4,5.
- seccond test system shows no sign of bubbling or errosion.

...

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 22nd, '11, 22:06 
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The IBC tanks where used for some kind of wood glue. I know there are some little spots of dried glue remained in the ibc, but I thought that will do!

I saved some of that material so I put some in a bottle of well water, I stired it and measured the ph... guess what: 9,5+

Gotcha!

Hydrochloric acid added...

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 23rd, '11, 05:12 
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I'm glad you figured it out :) But i'm kind off worried about HCl since Cl kills bacteria, usually phosphoric acid is used for bringing ph down, have u checked that?
And i don't know about your gravel, but when i was using hydroton in hydroponics it was raising my pH like crazy from the start, because it was supposed to release some K ions since it's made out of clay.

I was also wondering if you could make a test with solids in your system, like putting some material that has a simmilar weight like fish poo in your FT to see if it goes to your GBs or if it stays in the FT. Am interested because i was thinking on modifying my system according to your gravity fed design because i'd use far less power then i do now? Maybe some small wood chips would be good for the job?


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 Post subject: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 23rd, '11, 08:40 
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H l us fine in small quantities for adjusting ph probably the best way of doing it. Also hydroton is ph neutral so I doubt it was affecting your ph :dontknow:

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 23rd, '11, 16:38 
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Lot of questions, busy weekend, lot to report.

Here is a picture of my high ph test bottles:
Attachment:
File comment: Who is the guilty one?
20110522264_.jpg
20110522264_.jpg [ 208.17 KiB | Viewed 3440 times ]

From left to right:
- well water with wood glue leftovers from the ibc-s former life (ph 9,5+)
- ravel in pure vinegar (ph should be around 2, this bottle is the errosion test)
- grarel, liaflor, system water + vinegar (I set the ph to 4,5 to see what happens on the long run)

I added 1dl of 20% HCl yesterday, ph went down to 7,5 during the afternoon, today morning the ph was back around 9 so added an othet 1dl. (NH3: 2-3, NO2 and NO3 are zero)

I fixed some leaks, but still have 3 more. I added a green shade cloth (probably around 50%) and now the inside temperature stays max 5 C-s above the outside temp. Water temp is 18-22C. Climate is really enjoyable inside.

I made the first sightseeing tour for my parents and grandparents. My grandpa (85) was a farmer in all his life. He was so excited and shocked about the ease of planting seeds and seedlings, the operation of the siphoons, the chemistry, the GH, he was bombing me with questions. For him its a revolution similar to inventions of his youth. He said they have been told that the new radios are so that you can see who is talking, years later they have seen the first TV-s. This is as hard to belive for tham: plants growing from fish poo without soil... He was watching with great intrest how I test the water for PH, Am, NO2, NO3. Finally he ran out of words and stood there amaized and smiling like little child. I'll pick tham up again in two weeks to check the groth. They agreed right away. :)


This is a picture that I took today morning.
Attachment:
20110523275_.jpg
20110523275_.jpg [ 237.21 KiB | Viewed 3439 times ]


molj@
- My "hydroton" is ph neutral, its designed especialy for hydroponics: http://www.liapor.com/en/filling.php?n=0301 They also offer expanded clay as a building material, but thats not ph neutral, has a ph on 8,5-9.

- I havent tested fish poo, as I have no fish so far :) However SLO (Solid Lift Overflow) works fine with sand and dust I had in the system, it picks those up without problem. I took a brush and brushed the bottom of the FT twice since startup, the water got misty but cleared up in a half hour and now the bottom is cristal clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 23rd, '11, 16:48 
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Saturday morning greenhouse tour:



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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 23rd, '11, 18:12 
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Thanks for the tour Peter..... :thumbright:

You have different elbows to what we have here, so can't really try controlling water flow like that. You might want to watch the ones in the sunlight at the front of the greenhouse, they will probably build up algae growing on the elbow which may affect the flow a little.. Maybe... :dontknow:

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 23rd, '11, 19:46 
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earthbound wrote:
Thanks for the tour Peter..... :thumbright:

You have different elbows to what we have here, so can't really try controlling water flow like that. You might want to watch the ones in the sunlight at the front of the greenhouse, they will probably build up algae growing on the elbow which may affect the flow a little.. Maybe... :dontknow:


You are right, I will surely have algae build up in the elbows, and it will affect the flow. Because the size of the pipe they wont clog easy or unnoticed. They are easy to clean as you can always pull out the elbow, as they're not glued, I will keep tham on close observation and report ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Aquaponics Hungary
PostPosted: May 23rd, '11, 21:42 
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I got some questions on youtube:

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What is the cost of your system?

Greenhouse + aquaponics system: ~€2500 + labour

Quote:
Can you make a video from your siphon?

Affnan has perfect detailed videos about the siphons: http://affnan-aquaponics.blogspot.com/search/label/Aquaponics%20-%20Siphon

siphon: 20mm pipe, 20/32 reducer, 32mm pipe
bell: 50mm
strainer: 80mm drainpipe

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