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 Post subject: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 14th, '11, 03:13 
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Just curious if anyone uses any type of turtle for an aquaponics system. i know the fourm says "fish" but there is no where else to post it that I see fit. Can they be used if not, why?


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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 14th, '11, 05:26 
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Some have talked about it, I'm not sure anyone has actually tried. I believe there were concerns of salmonilla as it seems to be common for turtles to carry it. There is someone using ducks, I have seen rabbits used with fish, crawfish, some talk of shrimp....etc...

What is your interest with turtles?

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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 14th, '11, 06:42 
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Well, I raise reptiles as well as breed some. I purchased 4 hatchling RES yesterday for another purpose, but then thought about adding them to the new tank which is part of my AP system. These are to small to do any harm to the fish but since they will be in their own tank there should be no issues for when they are grown. ( partially grown that is).

Ive heard their waste is very acidic which would be great for my setup since where I live we use a well for our water, and the water has a high ph of 8+ since the natural limestone deposites. But either way i dont think they would do harm to the Ph of a stable, cycled setup.


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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 14th, '11, 08:34 
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Most people on the forum have suggested not to use turtles in AP due to salmonella risks. My personal opinion though is if you prevent water from splashing onto the vegetables, wash your hands before handling the vegetables, then wash your vegetables before you eat them, then you should be fine. You could even include cooking any vegetables you grow. Just my opinion though, I'm no health expert. If the risk of salmonella was so great with turtles nobody would own them. Iguanas are supposed to have the same risk and I've met people who sleep with theirs.

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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 14th, '11, 08:42 
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TheNative wrote:
Iguanas are supposed to have the same risk and I've met people who sleep with theirs.


I know she could use some work....but she ain't that bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 14th, '11, 08:47 
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DéjàVoodoo wrote:
TheNative wrote:
Iguanas are supposed to have the same risk and I've met people who sleep with theirs.


I know she could use some work....but she ain't that bad.



:laughing3:

See that's what I'm talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 14th, '11, 09:15 
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I dont see the issue. Samonela is not as common as most people think although many animals, even dogs, can carry it. I have raised chickens, many reptiles, mice, and goats and I have never had issues with samonela. And the food produced will be used for the reptiles I raise, unless I produce more than expected. Who's to say fish dont carry it?

Farmers do use chicken manure occasionally, and that is often one source of the disease. ( farm raised, or comercial) Most domestic raised animals ( not comerical) usally do not carry samonela such as farm raised chickens v.s comercial. Usally comercially raised chickens are not properly cared for so they are more likely to have it. Thats just one example though. The real risk to small turtles is toddlers sucking on them or chokeing, and this is also where the samonela could be transmited.

and to the iguana thing, I've seen people swim with their adult constrictors in their pool, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 19th, '12, 21:24 
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My roommate's boyfriend is an avid turtle keeper. I am cycling my system with a western painted turtle. Turtles benefits from what I can see:

1. They have MUCH more personality than fish.
2. They are MUCH hardier than fish.
3. Much more interesting, varied diet.

The whole salmonella thing... seems like heresay to me. If you put a goldfish in your mouth, or didn't wash your hands after coming in contact with them, you may catch something. If you catch salmonella from handling a turtle, the fault lies in poor hygiene, not with the turtle.


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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 19th, '12, 21:58 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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The problem with salmonella Lilaooo... is that it is water bourne... survives in water, which means each time you put your hands in the water... you are potentially exposed...

Alos, unlike e-coli.... slamonella can be uptaken into plant tissue itself...

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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 20th, '12, 01:37 
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I currently have a red eared slider turrtle in an AP setup. I only have house plants in the little system though. While the risk of salmonella being in the system would exist with turtle, the actual chances are quite low honestly. Below is one study that discusses salmonella that was rather recent.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/11/salmonella-can-travel-from-leaves-into-tomatoes/

I think if one was careful about having the water splash on the plants you could reduce the chance of exposure.

In an older article it states "Salmonella can enter tomato plants through roots or flowers and can enter the fruit through small cracks, according to CDC. It is still unknown whether Salmonella can travel from roots to the fruits or if seeds can contaminate generations of tomato plants. "
http://www.foodhaccp.com/memberonly/newsletter236.html

Granted that does not mean it is safe of course. I think over all there is a risk if doing food plants in an AP setup with turtles, but if you are a little careful I think the chances of harm would be very very small. In addition, if you are keeping turtles anyway you are at some risk anyway if you do not wash your hands ect after handling them or touching their water. Either way you can do like me and just set the system up with what ever non-edible plants you want and watch them grow. :flower:


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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 20th, '12, 10:44 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Actually there has been research conducted that definitely shows that salmonella can/is uptaken by the roots (at least of some plants)... and embedded within plant tissue...

Here's a study.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC126780/

And another reference... http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/blog ... ief-review

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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 21st, '12, 00:51 
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Howdy yall,

Thank you for your responses and the wealth of articles! I'm still somewhat unconvinced... how MUCH salmonella does one turtle have, compared to fish and compared to the solution the leaves in the first studies were dipped in and what the hydroponic tomatoes were dosed with? In all the studies, they say they put a "high concentration of salmonella." Also, can salmonella travel up the roots ANY edible plant, or just squishy wet ones: cukes, tomatoes, etc?

"The uptake of Salmonella spp. by roots of hydroponically grown tomato plants has also been shown. Within one day of exposure to a high concentration mixture of Salmonella spp. pathogen cells were found in the hypocotyls, cotyledons, stems and leaves of young plants; though whether fruit is affected is not known at this time (Guo et al., 2002)."

....intrigued, but not convinced that I am going straight to the hospital with turtleponics.

I JUST started my cycling my system a week ago, so at least I have plenty of time to read about it and decide... and when I am ready to plant, I certainly won't be planting tomatoes (or any of the other plants "repeatedly identified as potential vehicles of human salmonellosis") as it will be approximately 5,000,000,000 DEGREES F here in Central Florida and I'll stick with okra. For anyone else in Florida, UF made this handy chart especially for us: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vh021.

I wonder how folks test for salmonella levels. I wonder if turtle poo is much higher in salmonella than other aquatic life, see this: http://www.idph.state.il.us/public/hb/hbsam.htm. Fish have it, too! It lives in "the digestive tracts of all animals", and aquaponic systems rely on poo, and manure has been used as a fertilizer for centuries (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers_of_Forty_Centuries)... something is not clicking here for me.

In any event, this particular western painted turtle is staying in my system for the time being. He is so aggressive, so determined to rape, pillage and murder anyone or anything in his path, that he has been sentenced to solitary confinement for the rest of his life (see my previous post about personality ^_^). So, when the goldfish I was cycling with inevitably died, my heart said I had to give him a place to stay, like you may allow a convict you love to stay on your couch for some time while he got things sorted out, even if he stole your TV and gave you salmonella.

Perhaps my future will be wrought with regret, but I won't be able to say that you fine folks didn't warn me. I will keep you posted.


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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 21st, '12, 01:02 
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try growing things that you'll cook (instead of raw greens)

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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Mar 21st, '12, 01:12 
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Keith, very true, I probably won't be eating raw okra! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Turtles in AP
PostPosted: Apr 1st, '12, 09:58 
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Ok update based on my experiences so far. Turtles require sunlight to be healthy. Fish tanks in aquaponics don't want sunlight from what I can tell by the forums, etc. So, this has been the major problem in my system. I imagine that a Musk turtle or a mud turtle or some sort of non basking turtle would be best suited for aquaponics. We have a juvenile western painted, a straight up lay around in the sunshine all day kind of turtle. I don't really have any eating sized plants yet but friend did eat some raw sprouts out straight out of the grow bed a few days ago and has not gone to the hospital.


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