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 Post subject: Multiple deficiencys?
PostPosted: Apr 16th, '18, 06:37 
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Hello,

After four months running, my system has some nutritional deficiencies in plants.

Initially I did not worry about this subject because I was more interested in that the system was cycled and the fish where well acclimatized.
One of the first introduced plants were the broccoli, which after 2 or 3 weeks, presented the yellow leaves, and at the ends dried. I started by adding potassium sulfate and iron to complement the symptoms that were appearing. The plants improved, but as they stopped adding for 2 or 3 weeks, they returned.
I have restarted the addition of these two products.
I am in doubt whether the symptoms that plants have, (since I am new in aquaponics) will be even the lack of iron and potassium, or any other type.

The help I request is to identify the possible deficiencies and then the best way to treat it, with the components that I have.

To complement, the system at the moment has the following parameters:
Temp. 18-19º celsius
Ph 7.3 (started at "8")
Ammonia 0-025
Nitrite 0-0.25
Nitrate 80-160
TDS 311
Values ​​that were measured with API (liquid) test kit
The system has 3000 litres of water, running with just 40 trout of about 150grams each, with 6 growbeds of 1,2x0,8x0,3meters.

Some pictures of brocolli

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One older brocolli, first one in the system...

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Pumpkin

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French garlic

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I hope you can help me, and give some good advices, thank you all.

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PostPosted: Apr 16th, '18, 09:00 
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How much are you feeding the fish, and what are you feeding them? Remembering that the fish feed is the only real input into the system so if you're not feeding much or using a poor quality feed, your plants will be anemic.

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PostPosted: Apr 16th, '18, 20:59 
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Hi,

I am feeding them with ration for trout that I buy at a local trout farm here on the Island where I live, but I do not know the characteristics of the product. Even on the farm they now, they will consult their records and then informing me; they buy in huge quantities and then sell in smaller, unlabeled bags.

I feed the trout according to a table that I removed from the net and that for the current size and temperature of 19ºc, it gives 90grs (I consider a variable weight of the trout, at a average of 120grs each, since I already caught trout with 90 grs and the heavier with 185 grs).

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One of my concerns was the food, but since the farm is the only supplier on the Island, and use just that kind of feed, I ended up risking and seeing what was going to happen.

The alternative was to import from any other side, at a higher cost because I buy at 2 € / kg and on the net, from UK, the best price that I found was from 3.8 € / kg and up.

Im waiting for the reponse of the farm in relation to the type of food.

Thanks for the help


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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '18, 03:27 
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Those are pretty high nitrate readings to be having other deficiencies, usually don't see that :? . Were the potassium sulfate and the iron added directly to the system water and what form was the iron in?

Pull one of the plants, see how the roots look and post up a pic.


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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '18, 16:04 
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Yes what sort of iron are you using

EDTA "Iron" (commonly found in garden shops) is only any use to you if foliar sprayed as your Ph is preventing it being available in the root zone

EDDHA "Iron" is the product you will need if you wish to add iron to the system


I would foliar spray Iron yesterday as a short term solution as iron looks like the most likely major cause

Add some liquid seaweed extract to cover trace elements

Deficiences will occur depending on how you plant your system

Lots of fruiting crop like tomatoes for example will require potassium supplement

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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '18, 16:38 
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scotty435 wrote:
Those are pretty high nitrate readings to be having other deficiencies, usually don't see that :? . Were the potassium sulfate and the iron added directly to the system water and what form was the iron in?


Hi,
They are in the form of powder, soluble in water. I mix it with water in a separate bucket and add it to the fish tank.


This is the iron I have added

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Roots from brocolli

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From my lettuce

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Terra:

Quote:
Add some liquid seaweed extract to cover trace elements

Deficiences will occur depending on how you plant your system

Lots of fruiting crop like tomatoes for example will require potassium supplement


I introduced 4 feet of lettuce just a week ago so they are still very small.
What I have planted are:
8 Broccoli
6 Lettuces
10 French garlic
1 Physalis
4 Tomatoes
1 Pineapple
5 Pumpkin, 2 or 3 weeks
vine sticks to burst (it is an experience)
4 Chinese cabbage, 2 weeks old

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How long does it take for iron to be noticed in plants?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '18, 17:05 
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The roots look healthy :thumbright: The red lettuce might have some bugs same with the physalis (I see a few white spots on the leaves, tough to tell)

Where are the plants showing deficiencies in relation to the incoming flow, are they before or after the tomatoes and physalis?

The iron you're using should work fine, usually works pretty fast but you might need more.


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PostPosted: Apr 17th, '18, 17:19 
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Tomates is in a diferent box of physalis.
In physalis box i have the abacaxi and parsley that i forget to mencioned and just one french garlic.

Tomates is in other box with smal chinese cabadge.

Other one with french garlic and lettuce.

I have noted that the deficiencies are bigger far from que water input...

Is there a way to put the plants together in the box or can I join any species that i want?


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PostPosted: Apr 18th, '18, 04:30 
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Physalis and Tomatoes are big eaters and will suck up a lot of nutrients. A distribution grid inside the grow bed might help bring some nutrients to other parts of the bed. Just make it without using any glue so you can take it apart and clean it. Doesn't matter if it leaks because it's within the grow bed. Check out the BYAP grow beds, they have one - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/systems/backyard-aquaponic-installs/denise-and-georges-system/


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PostPosted: Apr 19th, '18, 02:16 
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scotty435 wrote:
Physalis and Tomatoes are big eaters and will suck up a lot of nutrients. A distribution grid inside the grow bed might help bring some nutrients to other parts of the bed. Just make it without using any glue so you can take it apart and clean it. Doesn't matter if it leaks because it's within the grow bed. Check out the BYAP grow beds, they have one - http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/systems/backyard-aquaponic-installs/denise-and-georges-system/


Are you referring to the water pipe that runs around the bed, to distribute the water on several sides?
My grow-bed is only 1.2 x 0.8 meters, is it really necessary?


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PostPosted: Apr 19th, '18, 07:06 
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Might not matter with the tomatoes and physalis, they might takeover a bed that size and eat up all the nutrients you feed into it (watch out for the tomatoes blocking up the inflow or outflow with roots, they're very aggressive).

As far as installing the distribution grid :dontknow: Up to you, it sounds like you're getting a nutrient gradient across the grow bed and spreading the incoming flow out would help that. You don't need to do the grid around the outside, you could just have a single pipe through the bed from one side to the other. Usually as a grow bed matures there is enough of a nutrient reservoir that this isn't as important. I'm thinking that giving first crack to some of the other plants will help them out, I don't know if it's enough though. Increasing the feed input or using something to provide the other plants with some of the missing nutrients are other options.


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PostPosted: May 1st, '18, 18:48 
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Hello,
It was past 15 days and I did not see any improvement in the iron deficiency. The leaves continue in most cases with a yellow tone and sporadically some green. The broccoli died almost all ...
I added the following quantities of 6% iron EDDHA:

19 / mar 120 grams
26 / Mar 40 grams
01 / Apr 20 grams
07 / Apr 20 grams
Apr 11 50 grams
Apr 14, 60 grams
Apr 16 70 grams
Apr 21, 40 grams
Apr 30 70 grams

I am trying to reach a fixed value but if once or twice I begin to see very small improvements in the broccoli, soon the deficiency returns.

Given the amount of water, would I add larger amounts of iron? after all they are 3000 liters.

Now that the water has a strong rose-colored hue, I have some difficulties in evaluating the result of the analyzes with the test kit. I can not even see my fish ... which makes me sad because I am a big fish lover (I have several aquariums at home).

By comparing the colors of the analisys results (I take photos every time I do the analysis), I know that PH is downloading and I'm beginning to think about adding iron of another type.

Going back to my question, will it be the right amounts or will I have to add more? or is there another disability?


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PostPosted: May 1st, '18, 20:49 
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Hi,

I think you've added way too much iron.
there is no fixed rules it depends on the system, the plants, etc. But with a 3000 liters system you should add something like 30 to 50 grams per month. And i see you've added 300 grams in april !

You should switch to DTPA iron which won't color the water. And buy an iron test kit.

And you probably have some other deficiency if you are seing improvements after adding that much...

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PostPosted: May 2nd, '18, 02:43 
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+1 too much iron - Stop adding iron to the system water.

The EDDHA works fine but yes it will color the water if you use too much, which the DTPA won't.

SebZ wrote:
And you probably have some other deficiency if you are seing improvements after adding that much...


I think he meant if you aren't seeing improvements after adding that much...


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PostPosted: May 2nd, '18, 08:06 
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scotty435 wrote:
I think he meant if you aren't seeing improvements after adding that much...

Yes sorry, this is what i meant !

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