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PostPosted: Jan 19th, '16, 16:27 
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Attachment:
~N-Values-PostBiocenosis.jpg
~N-Values-PostBiocenosis.jpg [ 41.84 KiB | Viewed 1431 times ]


:think: :think:

Well, a few more data-points, and the graph must be proving many, very wrong.. :oops:

The Nitrates are now zero and there is no grow bed, with the exception of a small shrub growing in the Biocenosis Flood-n-Drain bed..
..


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PostPosted: Jan 19th, '16, 16:44 
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very interesting buidoi. will be interesting how long they last have you had to salt bath the bags to refresh them yet?


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PostPosted: Jan 19th, '16, 20:18 
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signore wrote:
very interesting buidoi. will be interesting how long they last have you had to salt bath the bags to refresh them yet?


I believe that is one of the past silly comments on the subject..

ZEOLITE has been used by aquarium folk for a very long time and they don't re-activate it..
So too, with the Koi people and their bog filters..
And apart from that, there is the dubious comment.about system salt causing release of nitrates etc..

Well the process of so called .. re-activation... requires salting to a concentration that would kill most fish..
Thus I believe that it is a silly claim that salt will spell.disaster... :upset:

I am.salted to one part, and I try to maintain pH about 6. Ie. Trying to optimise (minimise) the TAN impact..

I believe that what is happening in my version of Biocenosis, is that the coarse sand like Zeolite, stands amongst clay balls, in a flood and drain bed.
The clay balls are providing some Bio filtration..

The original.Biocenosis bag was supposed to have Laterite.at it's core, and as Gunna' said.. "how is that going to.actually attract the N-ions..
I foolishly think that someone thought it might work and it did (in their minds), but never tried a.similar bag with just Zeolite ...and no Laterite Core

I believe that the core of the bags, do not drain with each cycle, and this core is near anaerobic and thus the nitrates are being off-gassed as nitrogen..
I believe that during the next flood cycle, higher N concentration water enters the outside of the bag and ions migrate to the now low ion density core.. :whistle:

That is the theory as I suspect it to be, and the results seem to prove that it is so..
How else could I have over 100 fast growing SP, in a system, with virtually no grow beds and little actual media..
I remove swirl-filter solids about twice weekly.. and NO water changes or perpetual leaks..

I am hoping to provoke someone into telling me.why I must be wrong.. and why the results are inconclusive.. :bootyshake:
..
..


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PostPosted: Jan 19th, '16, 21:38 
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is this the same stuff?
http://www.bunnings.com.au/hy-clor-15kg ... s_p3090117


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PostPosted: Jan 20th, '16, 05:52 
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dont get too pissed off at people being wrong Bui, we are learning about this as you are.


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PostPosted: Jan 22nd, '16, 04:49 
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Yavimaya wrote:
dont get too pissed off at people being wrong Bui, we are learning about this as you are.


LEARNING... Indeed we are.. like with the Zinc Disasters, and how WE either discounted the warnings as exaggerated, or believed that MY zinc won't shed..

I am obviously concerned that I AM wrong, again, and only hope that someone knows more and is holding out, on their experience..
But, within my limited tolerance for trawling for information, and the experience so far, I am pretty confident that I am right..
100 Large fish, just have to be Peeing heaps, and so even if I collect all solids :whistle: , there should have been a disaster by now..

The Zeolite I got, came from a local pool supplies mob...
BLUE CIRCLE - SOUTHERN.. Zeolite Filter Plus+ about twenty bucks from Bankstown..
It's extremely consistent in size .. and the size of Coffee Sugar Crystals.. and same colour
A seriously dense 'sand'
The Root Pouches came from RobBob (and I have to buy more for my new Hydro System)

No idea what the stuff is, sold by the likes of Bunnings.. :dontknow: (but..it feels fine through the bag)
but IF it is similar consistency, and IS Zeolite, then it should be OK..
I have read where ZEOLITE is more coarse.. Pea Sized.. and I suspect a coarse product will not work the same.

Again, I believe that my system works because of the use of flood-n-drain to most of the depth of the bag,
Causing the outer bag contents to flood and drain, whilst the inner.core remains airless and saturated..

Anyway.. III will keep you who are interested, updated...
specially if disaster strikes.. :upset:
..
.


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PostPosted: Apr 3rd, '16, 11:13 
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..
OK, so six months over the summer period, SHOULD provide a degree of confidence, as to the success of my concept of "Pumped-BioCenosis" .. Here is the data to date..
..
Attachment:
File comment: N-Values to this date - 6 mths trial
~N-Values-PostBiocenosis.jpg
~N-Values-PostBiocenosis.jpg [ 31.12 KiB | Viewed 1296 times ]

..
NOTE - these are random readings and so NO interpretations, should be attached to trends.
The ONLY desire on my part was to achieve what you see after 6mths of HEAVY use, with over 100 LARGE fish.. (fifty ready to eat)
That desire was to see typical ZERO values, and not a disastrous trend UP to system failure..

NOTE - a pH of 5.8 means that the optical interpretation of YELLOW, is 6 or less (no idea of the real value)
Importantly, I observe that the FISH tell me what the value is.. :laughing3:
When they refuse to eat, I know the pH is low, and a fist-full of BiCarb, sees them eating again..

The interesting thing to note is that I salted to just under 3PPT a few weeks ago, and guess what - :headbang:
the reading DID NOT shoot up as everyone predicted, :thumbright:
as when adding SALT was claimed would release all the stored "N's" :dontknow:

The important thing to remember is that I have my bags of Zeolite WITHIN a flood-n-drain bed of clay balls,
and these are giving additional Bio-Filtration..

Others have added "Bags" of Zeolite to a system, but that (IMHO) achieves far less, and at best is a help, or at worst, of no real benefit,
as you are not FORCING the exposure to the nutrients.. :support:

I do need to declare that I put a cutting of a Hoan-Ngoc shrub in the bed, and boy, has it gone mad, providing an endless supply for our morning's protein shakes..
Even the neighbour reaps her load from over the fence..
( I don't understand why every AP owner does not grow this fantastic food - GOOGLE Hoan-Ngoc - and if anyone wants some, they grow well from cuttings and I have MANY )

Anyway - I must declare my belief, that the concept of Pumped-BioCenosis seems to work.
"Pumped" meaning that Flood-n-Drain, causes the outer layers of the bag to fill and empty, "Pumping" the nutrients into the core of the bag where I "Presume" anoxic bacteria are liberating the nitrogen as gas, thus keeping ALL the "N" values low.. :cheers:

I have now emptied one fish tank of their smaller SP and moved them to the "Death" system, which has Self Healed from it's Zinc build up..
I now await my TROUT in the BioCenosis system..
..


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