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 Post subject: Natural Swimming Pools
PostPosted: Oct 21st, '12, 15:43 
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Hey all...

My wife is pretty determined to build a natural swimming pool.

for more info go to... http://www.gartenart-australia.com/index.php

This is so close to a huge aquaponics system that you swim in. The info i have found so far do not mention growing fishes and food, more have water plants to filter the water.

Has anyone here had anything to do with this kind of thing..

Can anyone think of any reason this would be no good?

Plan on separating the fishes from the swimmers.. having separate huge growbeds..
How would the fish handle this i wonder?
Would the fish pollute the water enough to be not healthy to swim in?

LOL... i would be a pool you could get away with peeing in...

Something to ponder...


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PostPosted: Oct 21st, '12, 15:46 
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Here are some memebers who have done something along the lines of what you have in mind:

viewtopic.php?t=4396

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum ... =16&t=9873

http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... =45&t=5535

Here are some videos in regards to the topic:







But wait... there's more:

Take a look at this page and in particular the "Biological Vegi Filter"

http://kilk.com/pond/

Also check out this site:

http://permaculturenews.org/2011/10/28/ ... ss-report/


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PostPosted: Oct 21st, '12, 16:32 
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Looking at the above videos and links it can be seen that what you have in mind is achieveable.

This type of system might not be ideal for growing a large amount of vegetables but the Biological Vegi Filter seen above seems to be doing very well. The grow bed volume to fish tank volume ratio is definitely out when compared to the usual aquaponic system.

Also the bottom of the pool or pond will more than likely be anaerobic which is what we don't want in aquaponics. I'm not sure if this is a problem though in such a large systetm.

Something I have pondered is the fact that the pool walls provide a large surface area for bacteria which will aid the system providing the DO levels are high enough.


Last edited by MacGyver on Oct 21st, '12, 16:56, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Oct 21st, '12, 16:38 
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Sometimes some anaerobic areas are beneficial too tough. The best way to avoid it is to swim regularly in it.

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PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '12, 09:23 
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awesome response... thank you heaps..

got some reading to do now..


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PostPosted: Oct 22nd, '12, 11:57 
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Running the water through adequately sized GB's to filter, clarify and remove nutrients is similar to the natural process that occurs when water is filtered through wetlands. There are pools around that are filtered by running the water through constructed wetlands that are built next to the pool. Some of these are very impressive with the constructed wetlands incorporated into the landscaping giving the feel of a natural oasis/billabong.

I think a mix of AP and constructed wetlands would give a good result as you could still gain some production from the system.

Google constructed wetlands and you will find plenty of information.

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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 02:54 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I know this is an old thread but.......
does anyone happen to know where I should look for info on the calculations needed for building natural pools? Or more accurately, converting an existing pool to natural filtration?

We have some neighbors with a spring fed pool! (basically an antique) that requires a LOT of maintenance and it is a friend of mine who is stuck dealing with the maintenance of it. It would be lovely if this pool could be converted to natural (or at least chemical free) filtration and clarifying but I don't really know where to direct them.

Biggest problem with it is the green water. I expect some form of UV would greatly help this situation. They can naturally let more of the natural spring water flow through the pool to help some but They also need more filtration than the single filter they currently have.

It is 55,000 gallons and not gonna be able to shade it enough from sun to get rid of the green tinted water that happen s without the chemicals.

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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 04:18 
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I'm just going to throw out some ideas since I'm not sure about this either.

Barley straw might help - https://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/fs1171/Pond-Lake-Mgmt-Using-Barley-Straw-to-Control-Algae.asp. I'd be a bit worried that filamentous algae would take over if the other algae wasn't using the nutrients anymore.

Phosphates, ammonia, and/or nitrates are usually in excess when you get lots of algae growth. Competition with other plants would help but if you can't block the sun then you'll have to add more filtration. This article talks about using Phosphate Accumulating Organisms (PAO's) to remove phosphates from wastewater treatment plant discharges and might help at least give you some ideas - http://www.lenntech.com/phosphorous-removal.htm

The PAO's store phosphate within their cell mass and grow when the conditions are favorable (anoxic conditions), the problem is at some point you have to dispose of the sludge that's accumulated and if your filter gets down to using sulfates then things start to smell bad as H2S is produced and methane can also be produced. That's part of the reason they follow the first stage with an aerated stage - similar to our Moving Bed Bio-reactor. It doesn't solve the problem but it removes some of the toxic gasses (think degassing) from the water. To get this to work on that scale, I'm not sure what it would take or whether it would be worth it :dontknow:

If you have excess ammonia or nitrates, an AP system or an MBBR would help with this but it might take a really big setup.

Hope you can find something useful out of this.


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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 04:39 
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Hi
Discovery Channel UK are screening a US made TV show called The pool Master. In the episode I saw he built a huge pool in Texas. This was filtered ‘naturally” Big stones to create waterfalls etc. not much technical info but worth a google.

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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 04:54 
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Well in my web surfing I've managed to find a few bits of info Like
If there is no other filtration/technology (like PhosTec or UV sterilizers/clarifiers etc)
you need the plant/gravel/filter regeneration area to equal the volume of the swimming area to avoid algae problems Well there is not enough space near the pool to put in 55,000 gallons worth of regeneration pond and I don't think they are likely to spend the money to do something that size.

I don't know how much pumping is required for a swimming pool with a rather light bathing load so I'm not even sure how much UV they would need. I KNOW there are no UV units that can handle 55,000 gph but since there are no fish I expect the pumping requirement is closer to 55,000 gallons per day which would only be about 40 gpm and a sterilizer to handle that is under $400 and the pump to run that is going to be less than $300 and probably less than 300 watts to run both the pump and sterilizer.

Then I just need to convince them to put in a huge pond plant bed and mosquito fish somewhere to make up as much filtration as we can.

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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 04:57 
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Titus wrote:
Hi
Discovery Channel UK are screening a US made TV show called The pool Master. In the episode I saw he built a huge pool in Texas. This was filtered ‘naturally” Big stones to create waterfalls etc. not much technical info but worth a google.


Yea I've seen the show, he is a nut and builds some awesome pools but definitely no technical calculation info included at all.

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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 06:37 
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Just hoping I can find out (at least better than my guess) how much water needs to be pumped around per day in a natural pool.

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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 10:15 
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Don't know what your water temp is and whether this would be legal or acceptable to the owners but some people use Tilapia to help control algae - http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=274762

edit - this sort of thing is probably why water hyacinth got used in Florida in the first place, it's great at filtering.


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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 17:55 
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Hi TC-Lynx

Quote : With the unique biological Aquaviva concept the optic quality of the water is similar to a traditional swimming pool but without the use of chemicals. Furthermore the area for the regeneration zone can be reduced to 20% for private pools. That means that 80%of the area can be used for swimming.
from here : http://mynaturalpool.com.au/index.php

This koiphen build thread http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthrea ... highlight=
might also contain some good info & tips, on the matter ?

and finaly this https://www.inspirationgreen.com/natura ... l?start=40
have numerous pics & links embeded

cheers


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PostPosted: Aug 23rd, '15, 22:34 
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scotty435 wrote:
Don't know what your water temp is and whether this would be legal or acceptable to the owners but some people use Tilapia to help control algae - http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=274762

edit - this sort of thing is probably why water hyacinth got used in Florida in the first place, it's great at filtering.


Blue tilapia would be legal for a private owner but I don't think they want to go there since they would introduce another whole layer of issues.

Water hyacinth is even more Illegal in FL. Which is a bummer because it is so good at using nutrients and makes such a great renewable animal feed (at least when I had ducks, they love it) but if the nursery inspectors ever come I better not have any around and the neighbors with the spring fed swimming pool get occasional visits from water authorities so they better not have an illegal invasive like hyacinth around.

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