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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '14, 19:42 
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Yeah that's how I used to do it before I got confident with spiking. Most of the time it was fine with small fish, but occasionally you'd have one that took just that *bit* too long to do and I never liked it.

I do still cut their throat and break their necks, but after I spike them. It helps to bleed them a bit and makes it easy to pull their gills out with their guts in one piece.

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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '14, 19:47 
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Humanely is open to interpretation, especially when it comes to fish. Cutting the throat may not be a humane way of doing things but its a habit from ocean fishing.

Theres another thread on the subject with more opinions..

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=6399&hilit=kill%2A

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PostPosted: Nov 6th, '14, 20:36 
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Charlie wrote:
Humanely is open to interpretation, especially when it comes to fish. Cutting the throat may not be a humane way of doing things but its a habit from ocean fishing.

Theres another thread on the subject with more opinions..

http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... it=kill%2A

I think doing what you are comfortable and confident in is important too. There would be nothing humane about trying a method you weren't confident in doing, stuffing it up and having the fish suffer.

I looked for a different way to go it than the cutting throat+neck snap because I never really liked doing it (despite trying to resist I couldn't help but apologise to the fish as I was doing it). :shifty: It never really sat right with me, whereas spiking them in the brain I feel far more confident and comfortable doing it. Not really sure why to be honest, I guess the tail spasm as they are spiked reassures me that it's done and done.

My dad's a knock them on the head and throw them into an ice slurry type. He pretty much only fishes warmer water so it's quick and works for him.

I think when it comes down to it, you're killing something, there's only so 'humane' it can get anyway.

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PostPosted: Nov 7th, '14, 04:31 
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Humane killing is a misnomer as far as I am concerned, If we were going to do it "humanely", surely we would put them in a fish nursing home when they got too old to swim unassisted, and give them palliative care until they died of natural causes!

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PostPosted: Nov 7th, '14, 04:48 
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..
It is not hard to work out where the spine is, and previously with any live fish, a heavy and sharp knife and a lump of wood as a hammer, would combine to attack from the side..

Ironically, and seeing the observations about brain positions, I suspect that my knife also took out the brain.

I am thinking of finding a good bladed and old knife and remove the point and sharpen to a chisel shape..
This would be whacked sideways through the spine/brain are.. so if you don't get the brain, you WILL get the spine anyway..

This all becomes more important when you are "doing" perhaps 30 fish... :wave:
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PostPosted: Nov 7th, '14, 05:02 
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Stuart Chignell wrote:
For example wooden benches and chopping boards are more hygienic than stainless steel but due to government health regulations I can't use wood in our processing facility :evil:


Hygienic... was that the word you meant...? I would have thought that nothing would be more hygienic than stainless..
Humane... now I would think wood would be more humane, as there would be reduced chance of slip..

Probably a silly thought, but I am thinking of a wooden block, hollowed out to a sought of fish shape , to cradle the critter while they get whacked.. :cry:
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PostPosted: Nov 7th, '14, 14:24 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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SS is more hygenic than wood when it is brand new. Once it has been used then wood is more hygenic.

Polished stainless steel does not have very many crevices for bacteria to hide and breed in. Once it has been used tiny scratches in the surface provide a place for bacteria to hide from regular kitchen and even bathroom strength disinfectants. The scratches are not large and are often not visible to the naked eye. Scratches formed by pots or pans being slid across the bench are enough to form bacteria habitat.

Wood has many crevices where bacteria can persist even after disinfection but the antiseptic qualities of wood mean that while the bacteria persist they do not grow or breed so they don't get to levels that are dangerous to human health if appropriately cleaned with basic cleaning agents. Often only warm water and a vigorous scrub.

Bottom line a SS steel bench that has been used will support a higher bacterial population than a wooden bench that has only been cleaned with warm water and a good scrub.

Deep knife scores and the like should be avoided in benches by using chopping boards and chopping boards should be regularly planed to remove any deep scores. A handy hand plane is good for this and a couple or strokes removes the top layer and reconditions the board. Mind you you shouldn't be deeply scoring your chopping boards anyway :naughty:

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PostPosted: Nov 7th, '14, 14:55 
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Stuart Chignell wrote:
Bottom line a SS steel bench that has been used will support a higher bacterial population than a wooden bench that has only been cleaned with warm water and a good scrub.


Most educational - I would NEVER have thought that, and moreover, would have siad the wood was FAR worse because of deeper, moisture retaining holes..

Thanks..


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PostPosted: Nov 8th, '14, 23:09 
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Stuart Chignell wrote:
SS is more hygenic than wood when it is brand new. Once it has been used then wood is more hygenic.

Polished stainless steel does not have very many crevices for bacteria to hide and breed in. Once it has been used tiny scratches in the surface provide a place for bacteria to hide from regular kitchen and even bathroom strength disinfectants. The scratches are not large and are often not visible to the naked eye. Scratches formed by pots or pans being slid across the bench are enough to form bacteria habitat.

Wood has many crevices where bacteria can persist even after disinfection but the antiseptic qualities of wood mean that while the bacteria persist they do not grow or breed so they don't get to levels that are dangerous to human health if appropriately cleaned with basic cleaning agents. Often only warm water and a vigorous scrub.

Bottom line a SS steel bench that has been used will support a higher bacterial population than a wooden bench that has only been cleaned with warm water and a good scrub.

Deep knife scores and the like should be avoided in benches by using chopping boards and chopping boards should be regularly planed to remove any deep scores. A handy hand plane is good for this and a couple or strokes removes the top layer and reconditions the board. Mind you you shouldn't be deeply scoring your chopping boards anyway :naughty:


Vaguely knowing you, I'm pretty sure this wont be the kind of reply seen as a challenge because I'm pretty confident you know what you're talking about, but can you point me in the direction of some supporting evidence? I hate the way I keep doing things I know to be obviously correct only to find later they are not.

I'd much rather be right tomorrow than ... well anything really. I just want to be right :)

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PostPosted: Nov 9th, '14, 15:00 
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i read somewhere how Bac can live for weeks on a SS top but on copper they will be dead in hours.

http://www.maximumyield.com/index.php/f ... or-harmful

interesting how they say door knobs in hospitals should be copper or brass rather than SS!

amazing how the first thought is the "shiny silver one is best"

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PostPosted: Nov 9th, '14, 15:32 
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I don't have anything to hand but I would say google is your friend. I'll have a look though.

The SS thing not being hygenic is one of those things where every one assumes that they are the best choice for hospitals, kitchens and the like. The papers I read started by the author giving a breif history on the uptake of SS as the standard for hygenic applications but that they couldn't find any research that had been done to document this.

If the answer had come out that yes indeed SS was a hygenic choice everyone would have said that the scientists had wasted the tax payers money on useless research. As it turned out they wasted the tax payers money because no one took any notice of their research and the counter intuitive results that it turned up :upset:

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PostPosted: Nov 10th, '14, 18:16 
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Dr. Carl (radio personality in Australia) said something once about drinking from your toilet being safer than drinking from your kitchen sink (or something like that). I wonder if it was research that inspired the comment.

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