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 Post subject: Re: Is nature unfair?
PostPosted: Sep 13th, '17, 01:19 
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"In the Philippines I am sure that if your farmer walks away from his depelted field that "wont grow anything" there will be all sorts of weeds and vegetation established within 6-12 months, and probably some form of 'jungle' within 1-2 years That would be pretty true of most areas in SE Asia. So its not about soil formation in that sense - it is about who/what is tough enough to survive there on what is available."

Thanks, This is very true and seen it many times. Here are some more interesting concepts taken from wikipedia:

"Mycorrhizal fungi form a mutualistic relationship with the roots of most plant species. In such a relationship, both the plants themselves and those parts of the roots that host the fungi, are said to be mycorrhizal. Relatively few of the mycorrhizal relationships between plant species and fungi have been examined to date, but 95% of the plant families investigated are predominantly mycorrhizal either in the sense that most of their species associate beneficially with mycorrhizae, or are absolutely dependent on mycorrhizae. The Orchidaceae are notorious as a family in which the absence of the correct mycorrhizae is fatal even to germinating seeds.[

The mycorrhizal mutualistic association provides the fungus with relatively constant and direct access to carbohydrates, such as glucose and sucrose.[5] The carbohydrates are translocated from their source (usually leaves) to root tissue and on to the plant's fungal partners. In return, the plant gains the benefits of the mycelium's higher absorptive capacity for water and mineral nutrients, partly because of the large surface area of fungal hyphae, which are much longer and finer than plant root hairs, and partly because some such fungi can mobilize soil minerals unavailable to the plants' roots. The effect is thus to improve the plant's mineral absorption capabilities.[6]

Unaided plant roots may be unable to take up nutrients that are chemically or physically immobilised; examples include phosphate ions and micronutrients such as iron. One form of such immobilization occurs in soil with high clay content, or soils with a strongly basic pH. The mycelium of the mycorrhizal fungus can, however, access many such nutrient sources, and make them available to the plants they colonize.[7] Thus many plants are able to obtain phosphate, without using soil as a source. Another form of immobilisation is when nutrients are locked up in organic matter that is slow to decay, such as wood, and some mycorrhizal fungi act directly as decay organisms, mobilising the nutrients and passing some onto the host plants; for example, in some dystrophic forests, large amounts of phosphate and other nutrients are taken up by mycorrhizal hyphae acting directly on leaf litter, bypassing the need for soil uptake.[8] Inga alley cropping, proposed as an alternative to slash and burn rainforest destruction,[9] relies upon mycorrhiza within the Inga Tree root system to prevent the rain from washing phosphorus out of the soil.[10]

In some more complex relationships mycorrhizal fungi do not just collect immobilised soil nutrients, but connect individual plants together by mycorrhizal networks that transport water, carbon, and other nutrients directly from plant to plant through underground hyphal networks.[11]

Suillus tomentosus, a basidiomycete fungus, produces specialized structures known as tuberculate ectomycorrhizae with its plant host lodgepole pine (Pinus contorta var. latifolia). These structures have been shown to host nitrogen fixing bacteria which contribute a significant amount of nitrogen and allow the pines to colonize nutrient-poor sites.

Recent research has shown that plants connected by mycorrihzal fungi can use these underground connections to produce and receive warning signals.[21][22] Specifically, when a host plant is attacked by an aphid, the plant signals surrounding connected plants of its condition. The host plant releases Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) that attract the insect's predators. The plants connected by mycorrhizal fungi are also prompted to produce identical VOCs that protect the uninfected plants from being targeted by the insect.[21] Additionally, this assists the mycorrhizal fungi by preventing the plant’s carbon relocation which negatively affects the fungi’s growth and occurs when the plant is attacked by herbivores.[2

plants grown in sterile soils and growth media often perform poorly without the addition of spores or hyphae of mycorrhizal fungi to colonise the plant roots and aid in the uptake of soil mineral nutrients.[23] The absence of mycorrhizal fungi can also slow plant growth in early succession or on degraded landscapes.[24] The introduction of alien mycorrhizal plants to nutrient-deficient ecosystems puts indigenous non-mycorrhizal plants at a competitive disadvantage."


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 Post subject: Re: Is nature unfair?
PostPosted: Sep 13th, '17, 14:06 
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Here is another article from natural news that very clearly supports my theory;

"Plants routinely face a challenge absorbing enough of certain key elements, such as phosphorus, nitrogen, potassium and iron. Fungi don’t face this obstacle; they produce specialized acids and enzymes that break the bonds that bind those nutrients to soil and organic compounds. Although we call this process “decay” and attach a morbid aura to the word, it’s a lively enterprise. Gardeners recognize this decomposition from their compost piles. It’s no surprise that a plant with hundreds, if not thousands, of miles of hyphae working on the plant’s behalf to mine key nutrients and freight them back to the roots is able to grow faster, stay healthier, and ultimately yield more than it would without the fungi’s partnership."

"At least 90 percent of all plant families are known to partner with mycorrhizal fungi. These associations can be between a single fungus species and a single plant species, but most plants associate with many species of fungi, and vice versa. Mycorrhizae are by no means considered the exception any longer. They rule. Mycorrhizae, not plant roots, are the principal structures for most nutrient uptake in the plant kingdom."

"How can a gardener take advantage of this symbiotic relationship that plants and fungi have been developing for 400 million years? Microbiologist David Douds of the USDA’s Agricultural Research Service has been studying that question for 35 years. His studies show that fungal inoculants can increase the yields of many vegetable and field crops, including leeks, peppers, potatoes, strawberries, sweet potatoes and tomatoes (see Slideshow).

Inoculants can give transplants a strong start, but the main key to raising good crops lies in maintaining healthy communities of native mycorrhizal fungi in the ground itself. Douds cautions against heavy or frequent tilling and the use of chemical fertilizers (especially phosphorus) and soil-applied fungicides. These activities break apart, weaken or otherwise suppress beneficial microbes, including fungal mycelia. You can keep your soil in prime condition by minimizing disturbances apart from occasional light tilling, weeding and mulching"

"An equally important step is to ensure that mycorrhizal fungi survive through winter and early spring. The kinds of mycorrhizal fungi that support many garden crops aren’t capable of living and reproducing independently of their plant partners. In a carefully weeded and fully harvested garden, mycorrhizal fungi numbers can decline for lack of live roots to colonize. Douds advises avoiding empty beds by keeping plants, whether food crops or cover crops growing at all times. "

more here
https://www.motherearthnews.com/orga...i-zm0z14aszkin


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 Post subject: Re: Is nature unfair?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '17, 01:04 
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But many of us live in climates with winters that are to harsh to have fields planted... What then?


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 Post subject: Re: Is nature unfair?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '17, 09:19 
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danny wrote:
But many of us live in climates with winters that are to harsh to have fields planted... What then?


Eat snow and sell ice to hot countries like ours I will accept barter ice for veggies. Be creative. I'm sure if you use your imagination for just one day a host of oportunities will reveal itself. Although it takes practice so maybe start with few minutes and then hours, so as not to overload your processors. :laughing3: ...


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 Post subject: Re: Is nature unfair?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '17, 19:47 
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I've often wondered about the potential of temperature controlled aquaponics/integrated aquaculture systems whereby water is warmed for plants and cooled for fish, at minumum/no energy cost or using renewables, as many high value fish species have optimum water temps far lower than optimum plant growth temps.


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 Post subject: Re: Is nature unfair?
PostPosted: Sep 15th, '17, 01:28 
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Aha youre lost. try aquaphonic threads


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 Post subject: Re: Is nature unfair?
PostPosted: Sep 19th, '17, 05:50 
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On another note, Permaculture supports mostly permanent infrastructures like a food forest where the input is minimal but you still get something back to eat. Obviously "nature does not support gluttony" and there is no obesity among the animal kingdom except humans. We consume way too many calories then we need hence the health problems start to appear and we have entire industry running on this, hospitals, psychologs etc. There are no hospitals or psychologs in nature. You either hunt or hunted, that is the truth :-) Also no lion goes for an extra large antelope with large chips and fizzy drink :-D

May be we should start from ourselves and reduce our consumption first. Then we will see the abundance around us.

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