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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 26th, '15, 20:22 
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You are awesome Scotty. I see it clearly, thank you thank you. Are you using air or water to back flush?

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 26th, '15, 23:24 
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Backflush of static filter would go like this -

1. Cover holes in 5 gallon bucket (stops flow to MBBR and raises water level to make the cleaning more effective)
2. Turn off water inflow
3. Turn on air in 5 gallon bucket (mixes and releases the solids from the pack of media)
4. After about 5 minutes of mixing turn off the air and open backflush valve - drain completely.
5. Turn off backflush valve, turn on inflow valve and repeat cleaning process. An alternative is to pour a bucket of clean system water into the top of the static filter at the end of step 4 to give the media a second flush and force the rest of the solids that are still in the piping out.
6. Turn off air, uncover holes, close backflush, open inflow, make sure air in MBBR is working if it's on the same line as the air to the static filter. You're done.

During the cleanout, you could open the flush valve on the outflow side and do your cleanout on the MBBR while your aerating the static filter and cleaning it. I usually give the bottom of the MBBR a gentle sweep before strarting to flush to suspend the solids just a bit, they tend to stick. So combined, cleaning both parts of this would take about 10 or 15 minutes. The MBBR portion really doesn't need to be cleaned very often though.


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 27th, '15, 00:08 
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I forgot one thing, you need to set the water level in the MBBR outside the tank with a riser between the outflow valve and the Flush valve.

If you create a bypass to this riser that has a valve, it would be an easy setup to turn into a trickling filter since you can lower the water level in the MBBR section (the tank bottom has to be above the water level it's flowing out to or this won't work (or maybe I just can't think of a way it would work without pumps and backflow preverters :dontknow: ).

Attachment:
Static and MBBR filter2.jpg
Static and MBBR filter2.jpg [ 64.58 KiB | Viewed 3632 times ]


I left the valve on the outlet in the diagram but I'm not sure you really need it. I also edited the backflush process in the previous post.


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 27th, '15, 06:23 
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http://aquafarmer.com.au/Fish%20Farming.html
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Yes that's right. Welcome to the next generation of aquafarming. We can run a 50 tonne system without a water pump or a complete farm on one pump, using gravity feed from header to sump and pumping between the two. The profit is in the saving.


Now I would like to.see.that... no pumps... - perphaps if you just. happen to have a natural cascade. Out back...
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.thought you might me interested .. hype.. comes to mind... Peter


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 27th, '15, 20:35 
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where are you guys gettiong the K1 media from?

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 27th, '15, 21:31 
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Now on my fifth read through Scotty435. I'm "getting" a little more on each peruse. With the riser, what water level in the MBBF are you looking for? Is the fact that top of my barrels are at the same water level as my FT doing the same thing?

I like the way the waste is supposed to stay in the top of your MBBF design. Unfortunately, I may not have left room for the extra backwash Tees and valves. Perhaps at this stage of my build I "need" simplicity, although you MBBF designs are pretty straight forward, and I thank you for that. I feel the need to throw some media in the big barrel and get some minor filtration happening and a place for the bacteria to live while I cycle. Besides, I do not have access to K1 media at the moment.

I will include your design and suggestions in my little morning newsletter because I thnk the MBBF is a breakthough in DIY engineering and resorcefulness, and I will build one for my fish pond project as soon as I can.

I still see debris near the inflow strainer of my SLO. I'm going to try a few things on that on my next day off. I want to do an air lift in the SLO pipe. I've also wanted a reason to go back to the same size pipe as the rest of the SLO. I believe airlift will work better in a smaller pipe. Maybe I'm wrong, it won't take much effort to find out.

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 28th, '15, 03:00 
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I think this is where I got mine - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kaldnes-K1-K2-K3-Bio-Filter-Media-56-63-Liter-or-2-Cubic-Feet-/221298358461?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item338668f8bd - If you choose K2 that's what I have (should be 5 spoke wheels).

OK just to backtrack a little and get this clear. Your flow is from Fish Tank to Filters to sump and then pumped back to fish tank, right? Are the

boss wrote:
Is the fact that top of my barrels are at the same water level as my FT doing the same thing?


Yikes, I went back over to your build thread and I see you're using a metal barrel. That has me a bit concerned because of the possibility of leaching metal into the water over time.

The water level in both can be the same but the level needs to be below the top of the barrels so you can aerate the MBBR, if that's what you're building in the second barrel. If there is room to bubble the media in the plastic tank without water sloshing out you should be good. I suppose it goes without saying that you need to be able to isolate the tanks to drain them.

I understand about the valves, they take lots of space and often in a lot of the wrong locations. I'd just setup the second tank as an MBBR. Looks like you have an inlet, an outlet and a drain on the plastic tank. Just add some aeration and covers to allow flow but keep the media in and it's set to go. I usually try to expand the area where the holes are to allow enough flow even if some of the holes are blocked (and they will be). Shower drains and smaller atrium grates will work (hole size is too big in most though), net pots could be made to work as well (whatever works).

boss wrote:
I will include your design and suggestions in my little morning newsletter because I thnk the MBBF is a breakthough in DIY engineering and resorcefulness, and I will build one for my fish pond project as soon as I can.


Glad you like it but remember the one I drew up is really a combo filter not only a MBBF (that's just the outer aerated part). The inner part is a Static Up Flow Filter. I'll probably have one build in a week or two and I'll post a few pics.

For the debris near the inflow strainer, I think you're right about the smaller pipe working better with the airlift. Having fish in the tank will move some of the debris where the SLO can pick it up. Looks like you're using a net pot outer screen similar to what I use. If there is an inner pipe that handles the flow, make sure it's as close to the bottom as possible. If your water is still going in like in the video here http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=23206&start=450 you may want to control the direction the flow enters your tank to get the solids where you want them.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 28th, '15, 04:53 
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Sigh - I kept thinking about the water levels

boss wrote:
With the riser, what water level in the MBBF are you looking for? Is the fact that top of my barrels are at the same water level as my FT doing the same thing?


On the combo tank filter I designed having the fish tank set the level will not work and won't do the same thing because the water is flowing down hill to the sump so the MBBR will drain all the way even though the center of the bucket could still be full. That's why the riser needs to be on the outflow side or in the tank somehow (but in the tank is a pain).

------

With a regular MBBR (which is what you should do in that location IMHO) you can have the water flow from low to high. The outflow in this configuration will set the water level. You're practically setup for this already - Since you came in from the side just use an elbow on the outflow side to turn upward and put the drain on a riser from this. Here is what I mean -

Attachment:
Straight MBBR  filter scaled.jpg
Straight MBBR filter scaled.jpg [ 35.35 KiB | Viewed 3582 times ]


The atrium grates can represent anything that allows water to flow but screens out the K1. Some people use a pipe that's horizontal to the surface, with slits cut on top as a strainer for the outflow.

You may not have the retention times for good filtration and may have to futz with the flow rate through this setup.


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 28th, '15, 21:16 
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Quote:
OK just to backtrack a little and get this clear. Your flow is from Fish Tank to Filters to sump and then pumped back to fish tank, right?
Indeed, with the media beds between the sump and the FT. Somewhere in my build page I have the calculation for my current media beds / FT volume / ST volume, although I hadn't done the fish load calcs yet. I guess it's about time for that.
Quote:
With a regular MBBR (which is what you should do in that location IMHO) you can have the water flow from low to high. The outflow in this configuration will set the water level. You're practically setup for this already - Since you came in from the side just use an elbow on the outflow side to turn upward and put the drain on a riser from this. Here is what I mean -

Yes this sounds like it will be better for my setup.

Quote:
Yikes, I went back over to your build thread and I see you're using a metal barrel. That has me a bit concerned because of the possibility of leaching metal into the water over time.

I also worry about the metal drum. As soon as I find a HDPE one I'll replace it. I checked it very well for exposed metal and found none. Whatever the manufacturer did to coat it with enamel, they did very well. Even where I used auto-body tools to shape the metal for a flatter fit of the bulkheads the powder coat stayed on. I was impressed. One thing I like about the steel drum is the nice tight fit on the lid. I don't have the ring which used to seal it shut, but still seals pretty good. The brown HDPE barrel has a screw on lid.

Quote:
Glad you like it but remember the one I drew up is really a combo filter not only a MBBF (that's just the outer aerated part). The inner part is a Static Up Flow Filter. I'll probably have one build in a week or two and I'll post a few pics.

Yep, got that. I'll have the upflow thingy in the RFF.

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 28th, '15, 22:33 
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After work and before visiting the wife at the hospital I went to a hardware store to see what I could find to use as temporary filter media. Came up with bird netting to hold the bio-balls. Also thought I'd try a swamp cooler filter made from Aspen shavings, all natural it says on the label, no chemicals I hope.
Attachment:
bio-balls-birdnetting.JPG
bio-balls-birdnetting.JPG [ 137.36 KiB | Viewed 3559 times ]

Attachment:
bio-balls-birdnetting-filter-media.JPG
bio-balls-birdnetting-filter-media.JPG [ 155.62 KiB | Viewed 3559 times ]

Attachment:
bio-balls-birdnetting-filter-media-set-in-200-liter-barrel.JPG
bio-balls-birdnetting-filter-media-set-in-200-liter-barrel.JPG [ 97.92 KiB | Viewed 3559 times ]

Attachment:
Aspen-shavings-on-top-bio-balls-birdnetting-filter-media-set-in-200-liter-barrel.JPG
Aspen-shavings-on-top-bio-balls-birdnetting-filter-media-set-in-200-liter-barrel.JPG [ 136.7 KiB | Viewed 3559 times ]

Added a little air under the whole mess, turned on the pump and we'll see what happens.
A friend gave me the bio-balls and a couple of ozs of ammonia, for helping start this cycling. I don't know how much to use for this ~10k Lt system.

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Specs: 2600 gallon (347.56cf) Masonry fish pond. 44cf GBs. 200 gal (26.7cf) ST. 15 gal (2cf) RFF. 50 gal (6.7cf) biofilter. Brook trout and Comets.


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 28th, '15, 23:06 
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I just cleaned the aquarium Fluvial filter into the unfinished RFF. Fluid is moving through it at perhaps a gallon per hour

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 29th, '15, 00:33 
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How was it doing before adding the media in the biofilter?


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 29th, '15, 02:53 
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If you end up building a k1 mbbr ( or other media), post your maximum feed input into the system (daily) and I'll run some numbers for you :)

Bio filters are fickle things, the expense is mainly to do it in the smallest footprint possible.

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 29th, '15, 02:56 
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Also, Scottie is always giving great logical advise. One of the few internet posters not answering with guesses for everything. Keep it up buddy!

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Jul 29th, '15, 04:13 
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Thanks Ryan :thumbright:


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