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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 16:29 
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What's your goal Hezzy? Do you have a solids pre-filter in front of where this will be placed, and what kind is it? I'm not clear on how you'll operate this (is it going to be flooded or a trickle through arrangement - Bioballs might not get enough Oxygen positioned under the sponge layers if flooded, unless you're aerating this from below as well. It's worth checking the dissolved oxygen in the lower part of the filter once the bacteria are established to see what's going on down there. 2 mg/L and above should be enough for aerobic nitrification process according to what I've read. I also think you might wind up cleaning the sponge layers more than you like (depending on the fish load). How will you be cleaning the filter?


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 17:43 
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The problem I'm trying to help is just remove some extra solids from my tank. I have the system running through 1500litres of media allready but it still gets little bit of algae floating around and I was hoping by adding a bio filter it would take it out an clarify water from solids a little.

I was thinking of trickling the water through the sponge but I think the bottom would be flooded alittle unless I put my outlet close to the bottom of my container.

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 17:46 
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I looked at radial flow and swirl filters which could work to but I'm not sure a swirl filter would collect fine particles ect
I'm not really sure how to go about it,
I think if I left my system how it is it would be fine an clear but I can't help myself I want to help it out as much as I can

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 20:15 
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I too didn't know bio-balls needed oxygen. I've cleaned the Fluvial filter several time on my 55 gallon aquarium. It has little bio-balls in the bottom under a few thin layers of what looks like open cell sponge. The Winter for one indoor project, I'll build and aquaponics system for my aquarium, including a better filter system.
How small can an RFF be and still be effective?
Scotty435, can I have too much air in my MBBR? There is as yet little or no bio-film on my K2. It is really roiling in the MBBR.

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 21:11 
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I had a look at one of your system videos (system up and running)

If algae is the main problem then I don't think either a solids filter or a bio-filter is going to give you much relief. Normally I'd suggest blocking the light but you've already got a shade house setup on the fish tank that's pretty good. Your up and running video was posted on Sept 10 2015 but you've had trout for longer which leaves me with the question, how old is this system? If it's really pretty new, most systems will clear on their own (although it's pretty normal to have some algae attached to the walls. Many algaes are so small that they pass through solids filters. Depending on the type of algae a properly sized UV light might work, the algae has to be able to pass through the filter though so if the algae is attached to a wall or doesn't get taken in because it's floating at the top you're out of luck.

Having your grow beds full of plants will also help take some nutrients away from the algae. Removing uneaten food will also help because your removing excess nutrients including phosphates.

For just straight solids a Radial Flow Filter is probably the simplest easy maintenance option for catching settleable solids. The suspended solids will pass through the RFF to your grow beds if they're next in line. If you're not running a high fish load in relation to your grow bed volume, you probably don't need an RFF and it adds a chore that you'll have to do regularly.

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 22:20 
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Brian, I could be wrong about this but I think bioballs are used mostly for Nitrification in much the same way as using the kaldness media, which is done aerobically . Like Kaldness media you could probably run them anaerobically as well though.

In your aquarium if there is enough flow carrying oxygen past the sponge layers then it should be fine. You don't need to spend a ton on a DO meter since you probably won't be doing repeat tests. Look for a test kit that does the DO by titration (AKA the Winkler method). Here's a video that goes into lots of detail on how it works and gives a demo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKdzbgHaQQM

I believe there are some simpler kits out there at aquarium stores that will get the info you need without resorting to spending a ton on a DO meter (unless you really want one). Like this one - http://www.amazon.com/Salifert-Dissolved-Oxygen-Test-Kit/dp/B001EJ3DQ4.

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boss wrote:
How small can an RFF be and still be effective?


Probably pretty small but sometimes it makes more sense to go a different route so think about whether it makes sense before you do it. As you shrink filters, some types get easier to clean and don't waste as much water. So a filter with a barrier might make sense :dontknow:. Sure don't see many small RFF's attached to aquariums.

boss wrote:
can I have too much air in my MBBR? There is as yet little or no bio-film on my K2. It is really roiling in the MBBR.


You want some of that shearing action so the media will be self cleaning but you're shooting for a a good strong boiling action but not a full rolling boil that might blast the inner portions of the media clean. At 5:06 in this video is close and would work but is a bit fast - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E2zIGGMdKU


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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 22:50 
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My system is two years old and in nearly full shade, it's always had alittle bit of algae on walls but now with the new air pumps it throws a lot of stuff around. I thought that as long as water was oxygenated water it will be ok, but I don't really even need bacteria just need sponge or a way to catch the solids.

When u run a bio canister filter in a fish tank it Dosnt have oxygen ?

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 22:52 
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Thanks scotty I'll look into the radial filters as well
Anything else you recommend

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 14th, '15, 23:09 
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Hezzy wrote: "When u run a bio canister filter in a fish tank it Dosnt have oxygen ?" Only the oxygen in the aquarium. Mine is 55 gallons (208 liters) with two air stones
Perhaps I should put one air stone nearer to the filter inlet?

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 15th, '15, 01:03 
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From what I thought, if the water was oxygenated it was ok but maybe I'm wrong on thAt.
So if you run a bio filter you can't just have it on it's own and as long as the water is air rated but I'm now unsure lol

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 Post subject: Re: BioFilter designs?
PostPosted: Sep 15th, '15, 02:01 
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It really just depends on the filter, the amount of bacterial activity and the flow rate. It's possible with a poor design or miss-use, for the bacteria to use up all the oxygen before the water gets through the filter. It's also possible for this to happen in only some areas of a filter because the water doesn't flow well through these areas. This can happen with overloaded grow beds although having a depth of only 1 foot and a large surface area makes them fairly good at oxygen transfer.

Most aquarium filters will do just fine if you follow the manufacturers instructions and clean them periodically if required.

---------------

If you're just getting large chunks of algae, putting a tight mesh elastic top paint strainer bag (Trimaco 11513 is one I've used) over the outfall from an outlet can do some good as long as the water doesn't break up the chunks once they've been caught. If you want to try some, you can probably find them or something similar at a paint store - the Trimaco version is 100 % Nylon.


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