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PostPosted: Sep 9th, '10, 20:50 
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I was just flicking through a supply catalogue today checking out prices for air pumps and noticed a new product the suppliers haven't told me about, Aquapro now make air pumps with a built in battery backup I will investigate more and find out sizes and more, sounds less complicated and alot cheaper than relays and ups etc. Sorry but this is an xtreme obsession.lol


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PostPosted: Sep 9th, '10, 21:03 
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Battery backup using a bank of gel cells and a fallover switch made using the reay simo links to from Jaycar. Runs a 12 volt air pump with two stones attached, will run for near on 2 days. The big pump in the box is 240 volt and runs 15 on 15 off all day everyday so long as 240 volt is available. CTEK charger is a smart charger and will happily maintain the batteries and then recharge them after use.


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '10, 07:36 
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Burnsy, why switch the 240V air pump on and off? to save power?
Ive used those 12v air pumps, whilst good they get hot and dont last that long, yours looks a bit better though
Ctek chargers are excellent... expensive but good. I like the toolbox idea too


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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '10, 19:28 
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jet wrote:
Burnsy, why switch the 240V air pump on and off? to save power?


Just to make it last longer, we get great oxygenation just through pumping and realistically should not need the air as long as we have 240 volt to run the pumps. Animal ethics committee (this is a school system) think otherwise though, so running it 15 minutes on 15 minutes off means it does not get to hot and hopefully it will last twice as long.

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PostPosted: Sep 10th, '10, 21:43 
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Could argue the other way as well that the constant starting/stopping will wear it out faster. :evil2:


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PostPosted: Sep 11th, '10, 20:22 
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Privatteer wrote:
Could argue the other way as well that the constant starting/stopping will wear it out faster. :evil2:


You could but I don't care enough to argue about it :bootyshake:

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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '10, 10:48 
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Im thinking of using a wind turbine into a battery bank, then to an inverter and on the pumps. Ideas?


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PostPosted: Dec 24th, '10, 12:24 
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The back up situation really depends on the amount of dollars you CAN spend and what you really need ie how much in fish replacement costs if it fails...... You can spend a little or alot being for different modules...... I am lucky enough we dont have to worry about it much as we on the farm have a 50KVA genset that runs the 3 houses and 3 worksheds and coolroom when needed..... I also have a small 900 watt cheap genset that runs for 3 hrs my pumps 400 watt onga and 180 watt sump pump and air pumps will runn on this pump and it was cheap.... so this being a last option I could run the system conbtinious for 3 hrs to build up the oxygen and run the system properly then leave it off for 2-3 hrs then do that again and it wouldnt be a problem for 2-3 days if really needed so maybe that is the way to go for people ??? genset only cost 3-400 dollars and i have a 30,000 ltr system..... so maybe look at this sort of thing as part of a backup system with a couple of older 12 or 6 volt batteries and inverter ... :)

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PostPosted: Mar 9th, '11, 22:05 
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Hi all,
after seeing Simo's photo of a barrow load of silvers that were plate or nearly plate size due to a recent power outage :support: (viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6167&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=240) I immediatly came here to see what I needed to know about backups. :wave1: After reading all I could find here and elsewhere I have come up with a possible backup system for my soon (June) to be installed system which will consist of;
1 X 3000l main tank
1 x 1000l sump
I'm starting with 2 grow beds and will expand to 4. I have lots of water in relation to beds/fish so that the margin for error is big so if there is a power failure or some other problem this gives me some extra buffer.
A 240v pump in both the main tank and sump, say 125w and 65w respectively (total of say 200w with timer).

I have been reading about backup systems using 12v pumps (for a waterfall) or aerators however with a sump tank I need to have a pump or aerator in both.

Looking at
- the cost of these 2 pumps
- the need to ensure that the retuning water to the sump tank is pumped back to the main tank so the sump tank does not overflow.
- the possibility that the power could be out for several hours where the backup system would need to cover a max of 10 hours assuming the power went out on the way to work. (geni to be used when I am home or for long term outages)
- the need for the system to also power longer outages when on holidays and no one is home to connect the geni in other words needs to be expandable to meet future needs.
- need to keep water running into the beds, especially in summer to maximise production and quality.

I wondered why i would need to have a separate system when I should already have a perfectly good and functioning system (pumps, pipes, timers etc) already in place.
So.... I looked at having a
- Backup power switch to switch to 12 v power in the event of an outage
- connect this to a 400w inverter
- powered by 1 x 12V100Ah deep cycle battery. According to the data sheet for the battery this should produce about 218w for 4 hours (http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/inde ... -c12-100da).
- the inverter is connected to the existing pumps and timer
as I am running a F&D system the pumps only need to run roughly for 15 mins per hour so (ignoring losses through the inverter etc) that this backup system should run the system in the event of a blackout for 14 to 16 hours.

This system is only marginally more expensive than a separate 12v system and has the advantage of running the system as if the power had not gone out.

I can easily add an additional battery to give me even longer times for peace of mind when I am on holidays

so my questions are
- am I on the right track, have i correctly understood the situation and info?
- if I am on the right track, how do I connect the pumps to both the inverter and the 240v mains power?

sorry for being so long winded but I think that I need to get the backup right before I put a system in. I dont want to be killing fish after so much time and energy being invested. :upset:


Cheers and thanks for any help and advice you can provide
Marc


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PostPosted: Mar 9th, '11, 22:40 
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My ups just got me through nine hours of a power outage today. Unfortunately I was a bit late home so I am not sure how much battery time was left when the power came back on.
Would have been pretty close to its limit.

Using an inverter to supply power in the method you have described needs a changeover set up to prevent two sources of 240v being present at the same time. However it can be done.
Be aware a number of inverters I have used will not start automatically with a load connected to stop.

A number of people use an inverter 24/7 with the battery charged from the 240v.


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PostPosted: Mar 10th, '11, 08:30 
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:wave1: Hi Marc, no reason why this would not work so long as you get all the numbers to work ( enough amp hour on the batteries, big enough inverter, right type of charger) and is probably what I am going to do when I redesign.

To change over from the 240V to 12V supply you will need a failover switch, you can buy one here:

http://www.aquaponics.net.au/prod43.htm

You would need to replace the 12V out let with a 240V GPO assuming the relay inside the box is a 4 pin 240V/12V version.

Probably a bit expensive considering they contain about $40 worth of parts, you could have a qualified electrician make one up for you using the relay shown one page back like Burnsy did (top of page), his seems to work.

With the inverter make sure it is big enough to handle the start up surge of your pumps, as while they may use 200w when running they probably draw a 400w surge when they start.

Invest in an expensive smart battery charger that turns off when the battery is full, constantly float charging a battery with an ordinary "dumb" charger will severly damage your battery life and capacity.

Good luck

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PostPosted: Mar 10th, '11, 08:54 
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Thanks Simo.
The inverter can handle a peak output of 900w (from memory) so should be all good but I agree I need to crunch the numbers now that I seem to be on the right track.

we are on tank water here and to run the house pump we needed a 4000w geni.

Changing the topic slighly did you get enough nitates from your silvers over winter to keep the grow beds going? I'm thinking of heating mine (solar as in something like a solar pool heater - lots of black pipe) or trout in the sump tank.
Cheers
Marc


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PostPosted: Mar 10th, '11, 09:50 
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Very slow growth over winter but the dirt gargens pick up the slack then anyway.

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PostPosted: Mar 13th, '11, 11:51 
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I went the simple route and bought an air pump with built-in battery backup from BYAP. This has the advantage that I can run it on the really hot days (and nights) to try and get maximum oxygenation in the fish tank. No wires, cables and stuff lying around.
After getting the fish to a good size, it would be such a waste to lose them to a power failure (and my freezer isn't that big).
Only downside is having to run the air pump regularly to ensure the battery is charged sufficiently.

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PostPosted: Mar 13th, '11, 15:08 
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Why not just leave the air pump running all the time? If you turn it on and off, chances are you may have a power failure when it's turned off, and your not at the house..

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