All times are UTC + 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sep 22nd, '09, 13:41 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Jul 28th, '08, 20:22
Posts: 47
Gender: Male
Location: Gold Coast, QLD
Fellow AP'ers..

With all our different innovations, and system designs - I would like to open the discussion to lowest possible Energy demand (total KwH/year and cost) in comparison to Fish and Plant crop yields.

What water & air pumps are we running?
How long/often are they operating?
What is the total energy demand of the system in W or Kw?
What is your loacl Kwh electricty rate?
Calculate your Kw/Mw used per year x KwH price?
How many $ is your AP system spending to operate?
What is the average fish and plant yield outputs?

cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
    Advertisement
 
PostPosted: Sep 22nd, '09, 15:40 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Nov 16th, '06, 08:44
Posts: 27177
Location: Gerringong
Gender: Male
Location: NSW Australia
Ah... the $64,000 question.. or the $640,000 question... or the $6.4million question...

Almost impossible to quantify... without a specific design in mind... and/or a system that was either designed with such factors in mind... or has been retrofitted...

In reality, most backyard systems have been cobbled together and have grown... without regard to such considerations... and most haven't/can't be metered/measured...

I did a full business plan a while back... reality is two things.... it costs a truck load of money to startup.... and the plan was blown out the window this month anyway... with a 22% increase in power costs... let alone the proposed water costs of about the same magnitude...

Other reality is only the smaller systems are even close to being capable of being run by solar...

Commercially... if you haven't got a fast growing fish (like Tilpaia)... or a "premium" market fish... then you'd better have a good reliable market for premium grade/priced veges...


And be prepared to spend aLOT of money upfront....if you can afford the power to run it all...

_________________
>

Fresh By Nature - Distributor of Aquaponic Systems and Products in NSW
http://www.freshbynature.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 22nd, '09, 15:55 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Nov 16th, '06, 08:44
Posts: 27177
Location: Gerringong
Gender: Male
Location: NSW Australia
You have to bear in mind that most systems here are "small" backyad systems... not necessarily designed for reasons of "efficiency" alone... or even "profitability"...

Because they're intend only for persoanl consumption... most wont have calculate any "cost benefits".... just personal/health benefits....

Scale in general has a significant affect on any cost/benefit analysis... and in terms of backyard systems... there's just sooo many variables to try and measure/quantify...

_________________
>

Fresh By Nature - Distributor of Aquaponic Systems and Products in NSW
http://www.freshbynature.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 22nd, '09, 17:54 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Aug 7th, '06, 20:07
Posts: 8292
Location: margaret river West Oz
Gender: Male
Location: Western Australia
I think that is the thing Rupe.
because it is quite simple, just power in, food in,seds in, then veg out fish out.
Verses hop in the car, drive to shops, find best of second grade you can, pay the man for growing,cartage,herbicide
pesticide, fertiliser, more pesticide, harvest, waste storage & handling, wastage, transport, handling, then you purchase it.
:shock:
We just go out the back and pickfish what's in season. :wink:

_________________
Give me trout any day
http://s670.photobucket.com/albums/vv70 ... ?start=all
http://forum.homeone.com.au/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 23rd, '09, 08:33 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Jul 28th, '08, 20:22
Posts: 47
Gender: Male
Location: Gold Coast, QLD
All fair points to raise.

So if you calculate captial costs ( FT, GB, Pumps, Gravel/ Media etc)and operational costs (Power, Feed, Fish, Seeds etc) over say a 5 year period..

what do you calculate a monthly (60 months or 260 weeks) cost of production would be?

I am looking at a 5000L system operating at a "cost" of $15/week.

Sure can handle versus what $15 will get me at any greengrocer or supermarket.

Any thoughts AP'ers?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 23rd, '09, 11:58 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Oct 11th, '07, 19:43
Posts: 6685
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Not at 3 am :(
Location: Kalgoorlie
I think I worked out (6 months ago or so) that each 20,000 litres of fish water and associated beds etc = ~$15,000 to build, not including labour. This is doing it properly with hydroton, big pipework, pumps, backup aeration etc.

This means around $60 per week without power or water taken into account. Actually comes pretty close to what your saying it costs :D

_________________
My New Commercial System - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6616
My Work - http://www.goldfieldsmc.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 23rd, '09, 12:18 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Jul 28th, '08, 20:22
Posts: 47
Gender: Male
Location: Gold Coast, QLD
reworked my numbers:

5000L system (2200L FT+ 2 x 1500L GB's):
5 years @ $20/week cost
3 years @ $27.50/week cost

This includes the bulk of the Overhead and Operational/ Variable Costs including water, feed, seed, power etc.

Stacks up pretty good against equivalent weekly comparitive Fruit & Veg bill.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 23rd, '09, 14:36 
Offline
Xtreme Contributor
Xtreme Contributor

Joined: Apr 12th, '09, 10:32
Posts: 203
Gender: Male
Are you human?: yes
Location: Jane Brook
Couple of other things need to be taken in to account.

1) Wastage. If you’re like me about 1/3 of the vegies each week end up getting wasted. With an AP or garden setup you pick want you want most of the time. Excess can also be preserved etc.
2) Freshness. You get good quality FRESH veggies all the time. Not to mention real fresh fish. Where I live the vegies from the local shops are rather ordinary at best, not to mention after they have been sitting in my fridge for a week.
3) Quality. You know exactly what is in your fish and vegies, no heavy metals, no poisons.
4) Hobby. Something a lot of people seem to forget, this turns in to a real hobby very quickly and it is a lot cheaper than golf (and much more fun if you ask me)

That has all got to add up to a couple of dollars a week worth.

_________________
http://www.evaustralia.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 23rd, '09, 21:57 
Offline
A posting God
A posting God

Joined: May 13th, '09, 21:28
Posts: 2118
Gender: Male
Are you human?: Depends
Location: Southern River, Western Australia
You can cut down on wastage by having complementing livestock (ie. yabbies, rabbits, chooks, etc) and not forgeting black soldier fly larvae... small offspring yabbies and BSF larvae could add to fish feed, etc...

I think the calculations here are all good but it is only the aspect of energy consumption and costs of operating the AP
system.

How about the reduced need to drive out to buy fresh veges and fish... if you have chooks as well, eggs...
Shouldn't the reduction in cost of petrol be somewhat quantified in the equation as well?
I am sure there will be more "1st level" energy savings if someone sits down and thinks about it.

"2nd level" energy savings like what is suggested by Creative1, less energy used to bring you fully grown food versus you fully growing your own food... There are more "2nd level" energy savings... probably even "3rd level" energy savings...

Therefore to truly calculate the energy consumption (or net energy) versus AP produce is going to be a rather complex calculation.

I think I am just happy knowing that although I could be spending more in electricity bills, I am actually saving lots more in other areas. Also that I am doing my part in forging a more sustainable future for myself and the future generations...

_________________
What we do in life echoes in eternity.
My First System
My Second (smaller) System
My 3rd Future System - Expanding Now


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 23rd, '09, 22:04 
Offline
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
User avatar

Joined: Aug 7th, '06, 20:07
Posts: 8292
Location: margaret river West Oz
Gender: Male
Location: Western Australia
:cheers: :cheers:

_________________
Give me trout any day
http://s670.photobucket.com/albums/vv70 ... ?start=all
http://forum.homeone.com.au/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 24th, '09, 00:10 
Offline
Legend Member
Legend Member

Joined: Apr 17th, '08, 02:47
Posts: 601
Location: Tulare County, California, U.S.A
Gender: Female
From a commercial point of view, a lot depends on your market. UVI had a system cost analysis, with basil and Tilapia, that was over $110,000 but there are two things to remember- one is the premium prices you get on the Virgin Islands and the other was that the market was unsustainable- the volume was so great, it couldn't be asborbed by the available buyers.


UPDATE ON TILAPIA AND VEGETABLE PRODUCTION IN THE
UVI AQUAPONIC SYSTEM

...Fresh basil with stems sells for $22.00/kg in the U.S. Virgin Islands. Therefore, gross income from staggered production would be US$515/m2/year and US$110,210/system/year compared to field production with gross income of US$172/m2/year and US$36,808/year for the same production area. Compared to field production, the aquaponic system would save substantial labor associated with weeding but would require additional labor for seedling replacement due to mortality. Total income from the system would be US$134,245 when fish are included.

Here are another two examples of a commercial AP system with lettuce and fish- one with an annual yield of 44,000 pounds of channel catfish or 27,600 pounds of tilapia. Again, neither was profitable but the infrastuture was top notch and the big four costs in commerical AP sunk it- energy, feed, fixed costs and labor but it is more the operational costs that will kill the deal more than the intial start up (fixed) costs that are depreciated over multiple years.

Integration of Hydroponic Tomato and Indoor Recirculating Aquacultural Production Systems: An Economic Analysis
www.ag.auburn.edu/aaes/communications/s ... sr_no6.pdf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 24th, '09, 00:17 
Offline
Legend Member
Legend Member

Joined: Apr 17th, '08, 02:47
Posts: 601
Location: Tulare County, California, U.S.A
Gender: Female
You have to look at the system as a whole and not just the cost of electricity or production. Of course, if it is just a hobby, no one really expects to make a profit but as pointed out there are other intangible benefits.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sep 24th, '09, 00:43 
Offline
Legend Member
Legend Member

Joined: Apr 17th, '08, 02:47
Posts: 601
Location: Tulare County, California, U.S.A
Gender: Female
Angie wrote:
Here are another two examples of a commercial AP system with lettuce and fish- one with an annual yield of 44,000 pounds of channel catfish or 27,600 pounds of tilapia. over multiple years.

Sorry this should say, "a commerical AP system with tomatoes and fish".


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: belpeor, Benny, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], marsorbust, Taper123 and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Portal by phpBB3 Portal © phpBB Türkiye
[ Time : 0.557s | 17 Queries | GZIP : Off ]