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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '09, 12:25 
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Hi Rupe,
Quote:
... the author has neither been involved in the system design or operation of any of them...
You obviously mean, other than those on his Micro Farm?
If you follow Gary's forum, this was posted just 2 weeks ago, it's all running OK! This is one of 3 that I know about.

Marburg Commercial System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

Several weeks ago, Martin O'Dee and I were approached to take over the establishment of a small commercial project in the Brisbane Valley.

Another party had commenced the project but the clients elected to discontinue the relationship. We were asked to do what was required to move the project (as it existed) to an operational footing.

Martin and I have worked together a number of times.

I assisted him during the very successful 2009 Commercial Aquaponics Seminar that brought Dr James Rakocy to Australia and he reciprocated when I ran my first aquaponics seminar at Creek Street. We subsequently collaborated in the upgrade of Martin's Rush Creek aquaponics system.

This is the second commercial aquaponics system that Martin has put together - his first being at Mildura in Victoria.

The Marburg Project comprises a large greenhouse which will house all of the growing systems and an insulated shed (love that shed) which will accommodate the fish side of the operation.

At the time we took over the project, the frame for the large greenhouse had been erected and the shed had been completed. Some of the aquaponics equipment had been delivered.


Gary
End quote.



Cheers IanK

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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '09, 12:30 
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Ian, are therer any pictures on the forum? If so what is the link, I want pictures :D

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School System http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5011
Backyard Farminghttp://backyardfarming.com.au/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=281


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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '09, 12:43 
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Yes ,Burnsy, but I don't knowto create a link to them. I'll try.
http://www.aquaponicshq.com/forums/show ... #post17738


Tell me if it works OK?

Cheers IanK

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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '09, 12:54 
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Ahh, that forum, yep link worked, nice shed, just think of all the timber I could dry in there :flower:

So is Murray no longer associated with that forum?

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Backyard Farminghttp://backyardfarming.com.au/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=281


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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '09, 13:03 
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Hi Burnsy, . . . . . Mr. Burns, sorry :mrgreen:
No., he isn't.
Murray and Gary had an amenable parting of the ways with that Forum a while ago. Murray's Forum is now;

http://www.aquaponics.net.au/hq/index.php

I subscribe to both forums, as well as this one! I really like both blokes, different as chalk and cheese, but worth their prospective weights in Gold!!
Cheers IanK

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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '09, 13:04 
Ian wrote:
Hi Rupe,
Quote:
... the author has neither been involved in the system design or operation of any of them...
You obviously mean, other than those on his Micro Farm?
If you follow Gary's forum, this was posted just 2 weeks ago, it's all running OK! This is one of 3 that I know about.

Marburg Commercial System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

Several weeks ago, Martin O'Dee and I were approached to take over the establishment of a small commercial project in the Brisbane Valley.

Another party had commenced the project but the clients elected to discontinue the relationship. We were asked to do what was required to move the project (as it existed) to an operational footing.

Martin and I have worked together a number of times.

I assisted him during the very successful 2009 Commercial Aquaponics Seminar that brought Dr James Rakocy to Australia and he reciprocated when I ran my first aquaponics seminar at Creek Street. We subsequently collaborated in the upgrade of Martin's Rush Creek aquaponics system.

This is the second commercial aquaponics system that Martin has put together - his first being at Mildura in Victoria.

The Marburg Project comprises a large greenhouse which will house all of the growing systems and an insulated shed (love that shed) which will accommodate the fish side of the operation.

At the time we took over the project, the frame for the large greenhouse had been erected and the shed had been completed. Some of the aquaponics equipment had been delivered.


Gary
End quote.



Cheers IanK


Well, to the best of my knowledge Gary's Micro farm system is all based on Murray Hallum's "Practical Aquaponics" equipment and system designs... he may have modfied them, or be in the process of doing so...

But his recent comments regarding the performance of his systems would tend to form the basis of his disappointment with "flood & drain"

And the first commercial aquaponics system in Mildura (if it's still operating) was also based on Murray's equipment, and to my knowledge... his designs... or at least in collaboration with Mr O'Dee...

Mr O'Dee's company would certainly appear to have been responsible for the "delivery" of the product, and organising the "grant" under which it proceeded...

And to have assisted in the installation... but there was certainly substantial involvement by Murray Hallum in that regard, indeed there are pictures posted showing Murray doing the installation...

The Marburg project is also based on Murray's designs and equipment, although it appears that Gary and Mr O'Dee may be completing (perhaps have completed) the project after a contractual dispute between Practical Aquaponics and the client...

Mr O'Dee's "Rush Creek" system, or more particularly his father's system... was also designed, supplied and installed by Murray Hallum... it may have since been "retro" fitted to a continuous flow system by Mr O'Dee and Gary... but it is not a "commercial system" ... not even a small one..

Gary hasn't as such designed, or really installed ... or operated any of the three mentioned projects...

Mr O'dee may have been involved in all three... but hasn't been involved in the operation of the Mildura "commercial" system... and as yet (I haven't followed the posts since that which you quoted)... the Marburg system could hardly be described as an operating "commercial" system...

The Mildura system hasn't reported any updates for over a year, including anything suggesting sale of fish ... that suggests that it is still operating...

To my knowledge Mr O'Dee's only other installed system is at a Coff's Harbour school/Tafe...

Nothing would suggest as such that either party... other than for "marketing" reasons could claim any real involvement in either designing, supplying or operating "commercial" aquaponic systems in Australia... but that's there business...


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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 23rd, '09, 13:21 
Upon checking out the forum link you provided Ian...

There's nothing to suggest that the Marburg system is actually operational as yet...

And it would appear (in the relevant thread) that Gary has in fact sold off his "Micro Fish Farm"...

I'm unable to see what future plans Gary has envisaged, presumably a "Queenslander" system... as the forum, for reasons unknown... restricts guests from viewing many/most of the posted/attached photos... :dontknow:

So to date, his concepts are essentially still unproven... again I wish him luck and look forward to hearing reports of how it all works out... hopefully photos will be provided and/or be accessible...


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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 26th, '09, 13:20 
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As someone who has actually and still actually runs both types of systems, I feel I can comment here. I run a flood and drain system, chift pist, 6000 litre sump, 5000 litre tank, 4 x 2000 litre growbeds. The system is currently holding around 120 kg's of fish. I feed around .8 - 1.2kg's of feed a day. Last summer I had a huge rat problem that strung out into winter so I didn't plant any winter veg in that main system. I have concentrated on rat proofing and eradicating them. That having been done, self seeded tomatoes from last year are flowering and the system is kicking on nicely. The lesson here is, that because I have absolutely shit loads of BIOFILTRATION, I can run a fair few fish in there. I designed the system to cope with 50 kg's of fish per 1000 litres according to the 2:1 ratio thingy. So far, so good. I am half way to that mark and I haven't lost a single fish touch wood, in 6 months. The system requires virtually zero maintenance. The growbeds are literally teeming with worms, the water is clear etc. All I do is top up the sump as required and feed the fish. And when the fish go a bit slow on the feed, they need a bit of fresh water, because of NITRATES not AMMONIA. Hence the BIOFILTRATION. You can have plants coming out of your ass, but if you don't have the filtration to handle to fish load you will kill them.
Conversely, my small test sized commercial lettuce growing system is being wound down. In order to get maximum growth out of the silvers, they need to be held at above 7.5 ph, and lettuces etc require ph in the 6's for fastest growth. The system is complicated, expensive to run and time consuming to operate. All related to solids removal and the power required to force water thru a pressurised bead filter. Pre-solids filtration is expensive to do properly, and time consuming, and involves expensive components to do it right..
In my gravel bed system I have NFT add-on with screen filters on the feeder lines . This is relatively simple. The substantial growbeds trap a fair bit of the solids, the screen traps a bit more, but the chanels eventually need a good clean out. Any holes that don't have a plant in the promote algal grwoth.
Having been doing AP now for 3and a half years, I can only come to one conclusin. Trying to do it commercially to grow fish and plants for profit? Don't bother IMHO. The scale that you need to produce it all on requires dollars with many zeros after them to even get started. I sell my veg at the local school every couple of weeks, whatever I have that we don't eat, mainly lettuces, and it pays for the pumping costs, but no profit as such. The real pleasure is eating the snowpeas straight out of the growbeds before the kids get them, or taking a handful of broad beans in to heather cause I hate em but they did well in a system un disturbed by rats :roll:
The only people making any money, out of systems the size of the one in Mildura or others similar like ours, I would guess, would be the people who charge a fortune for the set up and commissioning of the systems. Fish growth rates quoted by consultants rarely take into account temperatures, I even heard of someone telling his client that the silver perch he had supplied him with would be plate size in 8 months, just bullshit. Unheated past 17 degrees, mine would be 2.5 years to plate size. Minimum. At 27 degrees, 1.5 is my guess, but the cost of heating them would take any profit out of them at all.
I get a bit sick of people banging on about commercial systems, because to me, unless you have made a profit, employed someone to pick the stuff and feed the fish and managed to spend a few days a week sipping pina coladas by the pool, it ain't commercial, it is just supporting the consultants very large and warped ego. This post sounds a bit jaded I know, but I am just telling it like it has been for us. AP is the worlds most valuable hobby, I can't imagine my backyard without a system or 4. But people who feel the need to bang on about what they are going to do and how good it is going to be, just to support their flaming huge egos and to compete with people they have fallen out with who are at the forefront of this industry is just pathetic. I too would love to see both pictures and updates of how the system is looking and performing both $ and produce wise in 12 - 18 months, but I wouldn't mind betting it all goes very quiet.

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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 26th, '09, 21:08 
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+1 Monya.

I completely agree.

Do we have any data on what quantities have people (with systems that have been around for over 2 / 3 years) been harvesting - veggies / fish v/s FT capacity? Or you think that warrants a new thread?

Some rough estimates at least?

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 Post subject: Re: Ap blog
PostPosted: Oct 26th, '09, 21:19 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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Another thread me thinks...

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