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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 12:41 
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This is the reply copied from the email I got

No it isn't a good idea to use Dipel in aquaponics, the product shouldn't be use in any other way contrary to the label. If it is the bacillus thuringiensis israelensis that is used to get rid of mosquitos you may be able to but I wouldn't suggest it.

I emailed her here
consumer.advice.yates@orica.com <consumer.advice.yates@orica.com>

kind regards,
Leisa Pullar
Horticulturist
Email: leisa.pullar@orica.com
Consumer Advice Division
Yates
A Division of Orica Australia Pty Ltd

Locked bag 6504 Milperra DC NSW 1891


Cheers.
Mustard


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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 12:46 
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how interesting. I wonder if she is concerned about the fish or the people at the end of the line? It should be the fish because Dipel is used on so many veggie gardens already

ETA, or if it is just arse-covering

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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 13:08 
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You might be right about the arse covering, but I did explain in my email what AP was and that I intended to eat the fish when they were big enough.

Also in normal uses of Dipel you would put it on your plants and then before eating them you would wash off any remaining Dipel.

I dont know but I dont think that the plants would take any of the Dipel up so in that case no problem ???

But if it gets into the water maybe the fish do take it up !!!! And we eat the fish and that's why they put out the dont use rule for aquaponics.

I just think that there have been plenty of cases in the past where chemical companies have said "Yeah sure, it's safe to use". And it wasn't.

So if one says don't use it for a certain use use than maybe we should take note, even if it is on their part arse covering because they aren't sure about the way we want to use their product.


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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 13:11 
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hhmmm, yep. Thanks for letting us know.

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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 13:31 
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does dipel have warnings about human consumption on the packet?

Is it possible that she thinks we're putting it in the water? She mentions bacillus thuringiensis israelensis which is used for killing mozzie larvae in water. AFAICT using it on AP plants is not contrary to the label.

However, I have a suspicion that dipel contains a mild surfactant to help it wet down and stick to leaves instead of rolling off. This might be what they are worried about. I am too, but I would guess that we would know if this is a problem already, since it has been used extensively in AP already.

But if at all, use sparingly (don't put on enough so that it runs off the leaves and into the beds), and definitely don't use it when there is a likelyhood of rain...


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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 15:27 
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I have found the hazardous material hadling sheet for yates and have copied it here.

Hope this is of some help to people using Dipel

Please note that there is a much more detailed one at this site that can't be copied
http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp4KK002.pdf





Material Safety Data Sheet
1. IDENTIFICATION OF THE MATERIAL AND SUPPLIER
Product Name: YATES DIPEL HG BIO-INSECTICIDE
Supplier: Yates, a Division of Orica Australia Pty Ltd
ABN: 004 117 828
Street Address: 1 Gow Street,
Padstow, NSW 2211
Australia
Telephone Number: +61 2 9781 8800
Facsimile: +61 2 9794 9700
Emergency Telephone: 1 800 033 111 (ALL HOURS)
2. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Based on available information, not classified as hazardous according to criteria of ASCC; NON-HAZARDOUS
SUBSTANCE.
Not classified as Dangerous Goods by the criteria of the Australian Dangerous Goods Code (ADG Code) for transport by
Road and Rail; NON-DANGEROUS GOODS.
Poisons
Schedule:
None allocated.
3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Product Description: Bio-insecticide for the control of leaf-eating caterpillars on fruit trees, grape vines, cabbages,
cauliflowers and broccoli. Pale tan powder.
Components / CAS Number Proportion Risk Phrases
Inerts
-
to 100% -
Bacillus thuringiensis
68038-71-1
76 g/kg -
4. FIRST AID MEASURES
Inhalation: Remove victim from area of exposure - avoid becoming a casualty. Seek medical advice if effects
persist.
Skin Contact: If skin contact occurs, remove contaminated clothing and wash skin with running water. If irritation
occurs seek medical advice.
Eye Contact: If in eyes, wash out immediately with water. In all cases of eye contamination it is a sensible
Product Name: YATES DIPEL HG BIO-INSECTICIDE
Substance No: 000000020522 Issued: 04/04/2005 Version: 1
Page 1 of 4
Material Safety Data Sheet
precaution to seek medical advice.
Ingestion: Rinse mouth with water. No treatment normally required.
Medical attention
and special
treatment:
Not applicable.
5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
Hazards from combustion
products:
Non-combustible material.
Suitable Extinguishing Media: Not combustible, however, if material is involved in a fire use: Media applicable to
surrounding fire.
6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
Methods and materials for
containment and clean up:
Contain - prevent run off into drains and waterways. Collect and seal in properly labelled
containers.
7. HANDLING AND STORAGE
Conditions for safe storage: Store in the closed, original container in a dry, cool, well-ventilated area out of direct
sunlight. Keep containers closed when not in use - check regularly for spills.
Precautions for safe handling: No special requirements.
8. EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
Occupational Exposure Limits:
No value assigned for this specific material by the National Occupational Health and Safety Commission. However,
Exposure Standard(s) for constituent(s):
Nuisance dust: 8hr TWA = 10 mg/m3
TWA - The time-weighted average airborne concentration over an eight-hour working day, for a five-day working week
over an entire working life.
These Exposure Standards are guides to be used in the control of occupational health hazards. All atmospheric
contamination should be kept to as low a level as is workable. These exposure standards should not be used as fine
dividing lines between safe and dangerous concentrations of chemicals. They are not a measure of relative toxicity.
Product Name: YATES DIPEL HG BIO-INSECTICIDE
Substance No: 000000020522 Issued: 04/04/2005 Version: 1
Page 2 of 4
Material Safety Data Sheet
Engineering controls:
Natural ventilation should be adequate under normal use conditions.
Personal Protective Equipment:
No special personal protective equipment required. Always wash hands before smoking, eating, drinking or using the
toilet.
9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Physical state: Fine powder
Colour: Pale Tan
Odour: Faint
Solubility: Insoluble in water.
Specific Gravity: 0.5 kg/L (bulk density)
Vapour Pressure (20 °C): N App
Flash Point (°C): N App
Melting Point/Range (°C): N Av
10. STABILITY AND REACTIVITY
Chemical stability: Stable under normal conditions of use.
11. TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
No adverse health effects expected if the product is handled in accordance with this Safety Data Sheet and the product
label. Symptoms or effects that may arise if the product is mishandled and overexposure occurs are:
Ingestion: No adverse effects expected.
Eye contact: Exposure to the dust may cause discomfort due to particulate nature. May cause physical irritation to the
eyes.
Skin contact: Contact with skin may result in irritation.
Inhalation: Breathing in dust may result in respiratory irritation.
Long Term Effects:
No adverse effects expected.
Toxicological Data:
No LD50 data available for the product. For active ingredient (1):
Oral LD50 (rat): >1000 mg/kg
12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Ecotoxicity Avoid contaminating waterways.
Product Name: YATES DIPEL HG BIO-INSECTICIDE
Substance No: 000000020522 Issued: 04/04/2005 Version: 1
Page 3 of 4
Material Safety Data Sheet
13. DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS
Disposal methods: Refer to local government authority for disposal recommendations.
14. TRANSPORT INFORMATION
Road and Rail Transport
Not classified as Dangerous Goods by the criteria of the Australian Dangerous Goods Code (ADG Code) for transport by
Road and Rail; NON-DANGEROUS GOODS.
Marine Transport
Not classified as Dangerous Goods by the criteria of the International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code (IMDG Code) for
transport by sea; NON-DANGEROUS GOODS.
Air Transport
Not classified as Dangerous Goods by the criteria of the International Air Transport Association (IATA) Dangerous Goods
Regulations for transport by air; NON-DANGEROUS GOODS.
15. REGULATORY INFORMATION
Classification: Based on available information, not classified as hazardous according to criteria of ASCC; NONHAZARDOUS
SUBSTANCE.
Poisons Schedule: None allocated.
This product is registered in Australia by the Australian Pesticides & Veterinary Medicines Authority (APVMA).
16. OTHER INFORMATION
(1) Supplier Material Safety Data Sheet; 05/ 2001.
Reason(s) for Issue:
First Issue Primary MSDS
This material safety data sheet has been prepared by SH&E Shared Services, Orica.This MSDS summarises to our best
knowledge at the date of issue, the chemical health and safety hazards of the material and general guidance on how to
safely handle the material in the workplace. Since Orica Limited cannot anticipate or control the conditions under which
the product may be used, each user must, prior to usage, assess and control the risks arising from its use of the material.
If clarification or further information is needed, the user should contact their Orica representative or Orica Limited at the
contact details on page 1. Orica Limited's responsibility for the material as sold is subject to the terms and conditions of
sale, a copy of which is available upon request.
Product Name: YATES DIPEL HG BIO-INSECTICIDE
Substance No: 000000020522 Issued: 04/04/2005 Version: 1
Page 4 of 4


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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 16:12 
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Quote:
12. ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Ecotoxicity Avoid contaminating waterways.

that's about the only bit that covers it :?

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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 16:24 
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Solubility: Insoluble in water.


One wonders why if it's insoluble in water...... perhaps a generalised disclaimer.... don't go (polluting) putting stuff in the waterways.... :wink:


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PostPosted: May 16th, '08, 17:27 
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MSDS sheet suggests it pretty safe

http://msds.orica.com/pdf/shess-en-cds- ... 021624.pdf

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PostPosted: May 18th, '08, 13:50 
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"Ingestion: Rinse mouth with water. No treatment normally required."

if anything that there tells me it's pretty safe. they are talking about eating the powder there, so i'd hazard a guess that the diluted amount you spray on your plants isn't going to harm you.
i'd be suprised if they did any thinking at all in response to you email, it looks like boiler plate "don't use this for anything other than we tell you"


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PostPosted: May 18th, '08, 18:34 
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sounds like a generic "don't use it for anything other than what it says" disclaimer by the company

i mean its MEANT to be put onto the veggies, there is no withholding time listed, and its a bacterium.

unless the "inerts" aren't as inert as they're meant to be...........i know monsanto uses that trick ;)

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PostPosted: May 19th, '08, 03:28 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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If there is any soap sort of stuff as a spreader sticker/suffucant for use when spraying, that was the only reason I've heard suggested why it might be unwise to use too much around fish. As far as any other reason, definitely sounds like the product has not been specifically tested for such use so the company is not legally allowed to say it is OK for such use.

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PostPosted: May 19th, '08, 03:30 
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Seriously, this cant be healthy.
Seriously, this cant be healthy.
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I have gotten my bag of food grade DE. I will test it out against a few different things. Only thing I see of real drawback with the stuff (other than it being dusty to handle) is that I need to avoid flowers and plants that lady bugs seem to favor with it because it would be dangerous to bees and other beneficial bugs.

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PostPosted: May 25th, '08, 10:03 
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I need something that works well against blackspot. chives only appears to work on mildew.


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PostPosted: May 25th, '08, 10:08 
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Spray with iron chelate:) You need more Potassium to help fight the cause,,, Moringa ???

Smiles :)

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