Criticism please !

Jason73

Where to begin ....

So after months of reading and attempting to absorb as much as I could, I decided the best way to get it, was to try it, and learn as I go.

I have had 2 ponds for years, one in the ground that had my wife's koi, and one above ground that had a very happy red eared slider, and more minnows than I could count. Both ponds were tied together to utilize the bio filters that have kept the water clear for years with regular cleaning. I have however always fought high pH.

In my haste to get going, I separated the 2 ponds thinking my grow bed media would act as a bio filter and keep the new garden fish tank clear. I think I will have to go back to the old setup as I'm not convinced the grow bed has enough surface area. ( details to follow)

Some numbers ...

The pond holds 864 gallons
I have 21.5 cubic feet of grow bed
Currently with the pump running 100% to the grow beds, its taking 3 minutes to fill, and 1.5 mins to drain.

Readings this morning
Ammonia = .25
Nitrites = 0
pH = 8+

The build ....

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File comment: I decided to use the above ground pond for the garden, and place the grow beds over it to allow the flood and drain to dump right back into the pond.

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File comment: I kept the old pump, I'm sure its way oversized but I built the option to bypass some water or divert elsewhere if needed.

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File comment: I used six of these 27 gallon HDPE totes I found at the hardware store for 10$ each. The shorter ones are 13" deep, the taller are 15" deep.

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File comment: For media I went with pea gravel I was able to get for free. I would like to buy a bag of clay pebbles every couple weeks and change it out next spring.

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Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated, the wealth of knowledge on this forum is amazing ! Thanks in advance.

Jason73

Failed to mention the fish. I have 11 koi that range from 12" to 20" in the pond currently. I am going to monitor the pond temperature throughout the summer before I make a decision on different fish.

coachchris

You could use some more GB space. I have almost 60 cu ft of Gb area and have about 500 gallons of water. Maybe a DWC bed, or a larger GB build. Colum just made a nice one that would be perfect.

Squatchaponics

Yes, you need more growbed space.

You could build growbeds from wood and then line them with EPDM. Some beds could be flood and drain and others could be DWC or constant flood. The beds you want to use as flood and drain would need to be above the fish tank so they could drain directly into it as you are already doing. You could add a smallish sized sump tank which would then allow you to add constant flood and/or DWC beds at a height more reasonable in case you have any shorter folks who like to dabble in the garden.

Or... since you have one "pond" above ground and one "pond" in-ground... you could use the in-ground pond as a sump while still stocking it with fish... drain all of your beds to that pond and then pump back to the above ground pond. I didn't see you mention the size of the in-ground pond but if the volume is adequate you could easily add any type of beds to this setup. Just remember, the more flood and drain beds you have the more fluctuation in water level you'll have in the sump and the sump volume must be able to accommodate for those changes... as well as the fish stocked inside.

Its time to get carried away! :geek:

Jason73

Thanks guys. Do I need more grow bed because of water volume or fish stocking ?

Jason73

If I could get this all tied together into one system, I would be in heaven. The raised beds can be converted pretty easily into more grow bed, and possibly use the ground pond as a sump. Here are a few more pics.

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File comment: Ground pond. Its an odd shape and I never figured out its exact volume, but I'm guessing its around 1500 gallons.

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File comment: Perspective pic showing the orientation to the other system.

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File comment: The bio filters for the ground pond.

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File comment: Soil raised beds. Would love to convert them !

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Squatchaponics

You could easily ( I say easily because the process would only involve plumbing and some digging instead of redesign and relocation of the ponds ) convert all of this into one system.

Is there a bottom drain in the in-ground pond? You could incorporate that and the "IN" line to your pump, pump through your filtration barrels and then gravity feed from the filtration to the fish tank, then gravity feed through the beds to the sump pond. You'll have to do a bit of ditch digging for the various pipes necessary but if you're willing to get sweaty you could have a really nice system.

I would use the sump pond for crustaceans since they don't need a lot of water volume should the flood and drain beds all fill at the same time thus bringing the water level in the sump pond to its lowest level.

Also, some sort of safety using a float valve from a water source into your sump pond would need to be added to make sure the water level does not get too low. I use rain water from my roof for this but your situation might be different depending on rainfall levels and especially the roofing material used on your home. If your roof is not compatible you could add a good in-line chlorine filter from your home water source through a float valve into an IBC tote as use for reserve water to keep the system levels safe. That would pretty easy to setup.

All this means THE SKY IS THE LIMIT with your backyard. I'm sure many folks on this forum are jealous of the "bone" you've already got in place. :thumbleft:

Squatchaponics

You're probably going to want to prune or even remove some of those trees. Looks like you're going to want a little more sunlight when you start placing beds.

Squatchaponics

On second thought.... I'd go from FISH POND -> FILTERS -> GROWBEDS -> SUMP POND -> REPEAT

Jason73

You definitely have me thinking its possible. Getting it to all work off one pump will be a challenge. We are in the process of thinning out that large tree to increase the light filtering thru. I have learned one important rule living in the desert, nothing but cactus can tolerate full sun here lol. I have been using the ground pond as a top off for the fish tank, refilling it the same day as I top off gives it a week or more to off gas any chlorine I introduce. I could move the fish back to the ground pond ( which will maintain temperature better throughout the year anyway ) and use the above ground for the sump. This would make your second thought easier to achieve. However, wouldn't tying them all together give me the need to have even MORE growbed ?

Squatchaponics

Jason73 wrote:

You definitely have me thinking its possible. Getting it to all work off one pump will be a challenge. We are in the process of thinning out that large tree to increase the light filtering thru. I have learned one important rule living in the desert, nothing but cactus can tolerate full sun here lol. I have been using the ground pond as a top off for the fish tank, refilling it the same day as I top off gives it a week or more to off gas any chlorine I introduce. I could move the fish back to the ground pond ( which will maintain temperature better throughout the year anyway ) and use the above ground for the sump. This would make your second thought easier to achieve. However, wouldn't tying them all together give me the need to have even MORE growbed ?

Not at all. The amount of fish weight in the system is a stronger determinant of needed filter (grow media volume). The settled rule of thumb on this forum is 3kg of fish to 100 liters of grow media (see this thread).

The problem with using your ground pond as your fish tank is the fluctuation of water level if you incorporate flood and drain beds in your system. The design I suggested would maintain a constant level of water in your fish tank or a CHIFT PIST system. This has many advantages that you can read about but is by no means the mandatory design. IMO, this would be an easy design given your current resources and level of expertise.

Your sump tank needs to have a capacity to allow for volume fluctuations in your system and still allow for safe operation of your pump. The more flood and drain beds you have the more sump capacity will be necessary. Once you get your system up and running you can monitor the water levels in your sump pond and better determine how much flood and drain you can introduce. The only difference between a flood and drain bed and a constant flood bed is the presence of a siphon. If you feel the fluctuations in your sump pond are greater than you like all you need do is pull the siphon out of a bed or two thus converting them to constant flood and eliminating the amount of fluctuation they were creating in the sump. Also, most plants won't mind having wet feet if you should need to make the change.

If you don't get much rainfall in your area... you could run a regular water line to an IBC tote via a float valve as a reserve water reservoir. Adding an air stone into the reservoir would help the chlorine gas off faster. If you protect the tank from sun and debris it could even serve as a backup for potable water in times of emergency.

Jason73

Well, I have some planning to do lol.

Squatchaponics wrote:

The settled rule of thumb on this forum is 3kg of fish to 100 liters of grow media (see this thread).

If I do the math correctly, I have too many fish in the tank for my volume of grow bed.

Colum Black-Byron

Awesome job on those fish tanks/ponds. They look incredible!

I think your PH is coming from unsealed concrete in the pavers, and I'd check to see how much higher over 8+ it actually is. Your plant growth will suffer if it's too high.

To bring it down (it'll be a slow process if it's the concrete, but will work eventually). Use some hydrochloric acid/Muratic acid. It's cheap and easy, but go easy with it, you dump too much in, and it'll kill your fish. I'd usually say to treat your top up water, but you want the concrete to release as much lime as possible, so you want to add it to a point in your system that's as far from the fish as possible. And start slow, check Ph, add again, don't swing it too fast. No more than .3 every few days. And it will bounce back, so be patient. There are ways to bring it down quicker and more permenant, but you'll need to remove the fish for a small time.

It'd be trickier to plumb it to one pump with both beds, but doable.

I'd build the beds next to fishtank, but slightly lower than the fish tank water level, so it overflows into the GB's. If it was me, I'd build them the same as your fish tank (but lined with pond liner paint), all the piping hidden, and have them siphon into the sump.

Then just pump from the sump to the fish tank.

Another option could be to pump from the sump to another larger grow bed that's higher than the FT, and then overflow/siphon those beds into the FT, overflow the FT into another growbed, which flows back to the Sump.

And I hope that all isn't horribly confusing. Apologies if it is.

Squatchaponics

Jason73 wrote:

Well, I have some planning to do lol.

Squatchaponics wrote:

The settled rule of thumb on this forum is 3kg of fish to 100 liters of grow media (see this thread).

If I do the math correctly, I have too many fish in the tank for my volume of grow bed.

Additional mechanical filtration can change the ratio to some degree. As stated... its a "rule of thumb."

earthbound

Actually, no, your fish stocking is pretty well spot on... Water level fluctuations are not a problem, especially with those sort of ratios of fish tank to growbed.

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