Is there a basic group of minerals needed to buy?

Liney

Can you wise people suggest a list of minerals/ingredients required to buy to cover most issues or deficiencies in aquaponics.
I’ve seen people mention salt, iron chelate but would like a list so that a newbie like myself can buy it before the panic sets in and then try and find it at the last minute.

Cheers

dlf_perth

Aquaponics is not hydroponics - the additives are not the focus of the method.
However in cases some level of supplementation is required - particularly if you don't feed a lot or dont run a lot of fish.

what you need is very system dependent, so no-one can provide you a definitive list.
Will depend specifically upon pH water, number and type of fish, what you feed, and what you grow.
As you are Australian/Perth based will simply list brand name products that are easiest to buy & use.

For Fish:

SALT - for fish. Depends on type of fish and system, some need more than others..
goldfish not at all unless issues.
Need pure salt without agents/additives. Pool salt or 'pure' salt usually cheapest.
DO NOT USE table or cooking salt.

extra AIR - a lot of fish issues require additional air. Especially trout in warm conditions for example.
Need it ASAP if something starts going wrong.

For plants.

#1 - Seasol Original (white bottle) - this is low in N & P and ideal for aquaponics, adds what most plants need and is organic.

#2 - Seasol Powerfeed (green bottle) - this has N & P. Useful for when starting out and if you need to give the plants a boost. Can be watered in or used as a foliar feed. Is organic. Some might use small amounts of Charlie Carp here.
I prefer Seasol Powerfeed as you get the seaweed benefits and don't get protein acids/oils etc.
Both Powerfeed and Charlie Carp can be used to cycle a system *and* establish vegies using the *no fish* cycling method.

#3 - Iron. This is the main deficiency that needs supplementing for. AP is best with EDDHA Iron Chelate.
read Mr damage response here (page 2 bottom) > viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14055&p=560907&hilit=iron+chelate#p560907
and here > viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26641&p=530259&hilit=iron+chelate#p530259
and further searches on "Iron Chelate" if you need more - it is widely discussed here.

[sometimes list]

#4 - Potassium (K). Mostly for fruiting plants. Can get it various ways. KCO3 (below) or Sulphate of Potash.

#5 - blood&bone with Potash. Handy for tomatoes etc. Sprinkle lightly on the grow bed and water in.
Good organic option and solids will tend to stay in the media bed around roots - provides various things

#6 - a little amount of Epsom salts (good for chillis etc). Adds Magnesium. Foliar feed option.

Apart from EDDHA Iron, the above are typical Bunnings/Coles/KMart/BigW (Walmart) type purchases you would buy for any vegie growing - you definitely should not require as much as a dirt garden would use. Mostly added in very small amounts - less than once per week in growing season (usually fortnight or monthly).
Everything else is much lower down the list and often wont ever be required unless you have a specific deficiency.

Low pH ( <7 ) - usually Potassium Carbonate or Potassium BiCarbonate. (K is a bonus)
can also add agriculture lime / hydrated lime - but most systems don't need much Ca.

High Ph ( >7.9 ) - Hydrochloric acid HCL or muriatic acid (same thing). Treat water BEFORE adding to system.

you are in WA City so chloramines etc wont be an issue.

THINGS TO AVOID:
----------------------

#1 - Products or additives with Copper, Zinc < these in many Mineral and Multi-Element Supplements.
#2 - excessive use of Sulphate or Calcium based products

Liney

Cheers Darren you bl@@dy beaut-exactly what I was after as I haven’t come across any list of sorts so appreciate your help. I’m going to start with trout in a few weeks around 10 to start and if they survive I’ll get 10 more only.
Like I mentioned I just want to be able to buy the small amounts and store them until needed if at all and jump on the issue if it arises.

dlf_perth

no problems Liney. Was a good subject title and one we can point to.
Easy for an Oz reply as we can simply name Seasol and B&B+P instead of trying to figure out the local equivalent alternatives.

Note that Trout will need quite a bit of feed so you shouldn't really need to be adding much to a trout system.
They are pretty sensitive to many things.

Trout will be OK through winter but you just got to watch for warm weather/water temps towards the end of the year as they have quite low tolerance.

The air comment is particularly important for trout as they depend on more oxygenated water.
Give 10 a go and see how you go this year - it will be a bit of a learning curve.
See Petes threads (Petesake) for some insight - when things go bad they can go bad.
You can go up a few more once you get through a first year and have things settled.

Mr Damage

dlf_perth wrote:

#3 - Iron. This is the main deficiency that needs supplementing for. AP is best with EDDHA Iron Chelate.
read Mr damage response here (page 2 bottom) > viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14055&p=560907&hilit=iron+chelate#p560907
and here > viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26641&p=530259&hilit=iron+chelate#p530259

Just a quick note Liney... You'll see in the earlier of those two threads I mentioned reversing Iron chlorosis with a 1/4 teaspoon of EDDHA into the 500L in my system, then in the later one I state that it was 1/8 in 500L. You'll also see that in the later post I mention using proper measuring spoons. What I initially thought was about a 1/4 tspn of EDDHA Iron, actually turned out to be 1/8 when using the proper spoons, so now I definitely recommend them when adding things such as Iron chelate, Potassium bicarbonate etc. This is important, because if you add too much EDDHA Iron it will turn your water dark red.

Just to clarify... With proper measuring spoons, a 1/4 tspn of EDDHA per 1000L (1/8 into 500L) will rectify Iron Chlorosis within a few days, and I recommend my customers add a maximum of 1/2 a tspn per 1000L. That rate will turn your water pink, but you will still be able to see your fish. Any more is definitely not required and will turn you water dark red. The often stated need for a constant 2mg/Ltr thing is a furphy, unless you are running a system identical to the UVI one... and if you added EDDHA at that rate, you'd never see your fish again.

Liney

Holy $hitt this can get intense-Im a slow learner but get better as I go along, thanks Mr Damage again for your help- I can see that because my pH is between 8 - 8.2 there will be nutrient lock out and I'll be needing some iron chelate to help this. My ammonia is coming down to 0.25 now and I recall you mentioning doing part water changes with other water at a lower pH to bring systems pH down. I'd like to get 10 trout soon for the season and want to know if I need to call the supplier up and ask what pH they are living in(the trout) or is there a comfortable range? I have a bottle of the pH down and have a 200L & 100L drum of which to put the lower pH water in ready to swap out- so having a 300L change over what pH should I be aiming for to make an effect on the systems 1500L?

Liney

Sorry just been reading the pH down solution( phosphoric acid) and rates is 1 ml per 50L to drop down pH 1 value so as I have 1500L would that mean 30ml of solution to my system would drop it from pH 8.2 to 7.2? Was thinking should I put it into the system before I get fish and save the need of wasting water by doing a part change?

Mr Damage

No need to be in such a rush.

The amount of acid required to change the pH a given amount will vary greatly, depending on your source water. The more carbonates in the water, the more acid would be required. Also, Hydrochloric acid is preferred over Phosphoric, especially if using large quantities. The Chloride in the HCl acid is beneficial to the fish, where as Phosphates can promote algae growth.

Personally, I wouldn't bother playing with the pH, the fish and plants prefer the water slightly alkaline, and most fingerling suppliers water will be the same. It will drop soon enough on it's own and then you'll be having to add products to raise and buffer it. In the interim the plants will be fine with just a pinch of EDDHA Iron every few weeks until it starts dropping.

DanDMan

I always just added seaweed or sea92 sea salt. I suppose you could add fluvic acid trace mineral extract.

musamaniac

I like to use Azomite rock dust in my systems as part of my regular dosing. It contains a broad spectrum of essential micronutrients, plus it is an excellent source of silicate.

cookie

dlf_perth wrote:

THINGS TO AVOID:
----------------------

#1 - Products or additives with Copper, Zinc < these in many Mineral and Multi-Element Supplements.
#2 - excessive use of Sulphate or Calcium based products

Why is Calcium based products something to be avoided. This is new to me.

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