JAS's IBCs

jas94070

Hello all!

Been browsing this forum throughout this build, and figured I'd post my progress! Was originally looking to get a small hydroponic setup in my kitchen, and kept seeing aquaponic systems, which sent me down the rabbit hole! Attached pic is the progress so far. Designed to be CHIFT PIST constant flow.

3 @ 1000L totes used
-Grow Beds 470L x3
-Sump Tank 530L
-Fish Tank 1000L

Laguna Max-Flo 960 pump (4k LPH)

Temp controlled exhaust fan (960CFM)

Geolite Clay Pebbles

I'm working on washing these pebbles and filling up the GBs (not done filling them yet), but figured I'd post to get some advise and input! I have this setup in exactly half of my greenhouse, and will be expanding to the other side with the same 3GB & ST on the other side of the fish tank (if this ends up working out). Probably will end up making the additional expansion ST into a FT if possible.

This weekend I'll be:
-Washing the rest of the clay and filling the rest of the GBs, hopefully to the top.
-Filtering the water through carbon filter to get the rest of the debris out (will not use carbon filter after this).
-Starting the water flowing and getting some initial water testing/adjustments done.
-Putting up wood framing around all bins to protect against UV exposure.
-If all works out, will be planting some seedlings in the GBs.

Debating (advise needed):
-How to start cycling and bacteria growth. JimV has offered some inoculated water, but at a 4hr round trip drive, I'm looking for another way. I have a compost bin with the liquid catcher underneath. Debating making some aerated compost tea, and adding that to the system, but I've just started that research. I may also get some small goldfish, or just add Ammonia.
-Type of fish (will be harvested). Been hoping to find perch available somewhere with no luck. Good ole Northern California makes Tilapia out of the question. Looks like I maybe able to get Striped Bass, Largemouth Bass, BlueGill and Trout. Probably in order of my preference.

Open to any other advise, criticism, encouragement you have!

dstjohn99

Welcome JAS! Looking very good so far. I have a few suggestions.

1) I would stay away from valves. To balance flow make sure your pipe to the grow beds (GBs) is reasonably level, then turn your 90's slightly upward to restrict water flow. Once things are flowing, adjust the tilt of each elbow to balance the flow. Valves get clogged and constantly need adjusting.

2) your delivery pipe seems a bit small. You want to use a SLO for allowing water to flow out of your fish tank (FT). Usually you want at least 1-1/2 if not 2", then when it splits to different GBs go down in size.

3) you don't have any solids filtration so get some worms for your GBs after a few months to help break down the solids. Plan to clean your media after a couple of years, or consider sandponics where no solids filter is used.

4) Many people have trouble keeping the bottom of the IBC tank free of solids. I have very good success with a specific set up with the SLO< inlet water and air stones (optional). I've posted details a few times but I'm not sure where. So I'll include some photos and details to follow.

5) SAFETY!!! I'm concerned about your GB supports. GBs are very heavy (1/2 ton each when wet), and a significant bmp or minor earthquake could send two of yours tumbling. this could cause serious injury or death. Please consider a more robust support system with a larger footprint and lateral support to prevent tipping or flexing.

dstjohn99

SLO pipe has slots along the bottom. SLO runs in bottom corner along a long side.

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Water inlet is at the top, along the long side opposite the SLO. This sets up a downdraft that drives water across the bottom of the IBC towards the SLO and keeps the bottom clean. If you use air stones, place them on the SLO side to help with the updraft on that side.

The inlet holes should be pointed down or angled toward the wall. I use an open 90 on the end so when the holes get plugged I still have good water flow.

dstjohn99

I don't have any good pics of my plumbing, but this shows a little bit of how I use fittings and pipe to adjust and balance water flow to each of the beds. Watch out for where any drips go.

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jas94070

Awesome! This was exactly the type of advise I was looking for. Looks like you have the slots on the bottom (capped end) for sucking, and holes on top (open end) for blowing. I was debating going larger pipes, but every other system I saw had something this size. I’ll upsize now, with this type of system for sure.

I have 3 individual 1-1/4” drain pipes each going into the ST. Hoping that’s ok, as it’ll be quite tough to change.

Adding additional GB supports is smart. Will lower the fish tank a bit, and return those expensive valves.

dstjohn99

The 1-1/2 or 2" is only for the SLO drain from the FT. I use 3/4 on my growbed drains so 1-1/4 is plenty large. Individual drains is good. I have up to 4 3/4 bell siphons dumping into a 1-1/2 or 2" common drain and it works, but it does give me some undesirable side effects. I am (slowly) switching to individual 3/4 GB drains with a loop siphon at the end. 3 in place so far and working very well.

dstjohn99

Here is a photo of one system in testing that shows a 2" SLO outlet that splits to two 1" lines for the GBs. I don't glue the joints to allow for twisting to adjust flows, or reconfiguring for different layout. It is important to have a reasonably square cut and chamfer the sharp edges when not gluing joints. I rarely find leaks with gravity flow pipes when not using glue.

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jas94070

One advantage I saw with the valves was I can elbow them down and extend into the rocks (buried), keeping the rocks on top dry and algae free. How do you prevent algae growth with the pipes angled up and splashing water on top? I debated putting a small square filter pad on top where the water hit the rocks (catching the solids), but decided against it because the algae growth.

Think 3/4” is still ok for pump line from ST to FT?

skeggley

Hiya Jas, welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your build with us.
I agree with pretty much all Dst says.
I have just put some ibcs on pallets, with 4 legs in pretty much the same location as your supports, to collect rain water and now they’re full I notice the centre bowing at the base even with the pallets so need to add extra support so definitely worth looking at sooner rather than later.
It may be difficult to access the corner gb above the sump too.
I have had no problem with valves but Dst’s option would be cheaper.
I have no solids filter and have never cleaned my beds but I do allow the beds to partially self clean with isolations and flooding.
Always upsize the piping, it is easier to reduce flow through large pipes than increase through small pipes.
Try to allow easy access to all the pipework, once it’s in and fish are swimming it’s tough to change.
Finally, starting the cycle, I’m a fan of using fish emulsion, it provides ammonia and food for the plants, win win. Powerfeed with seasol is an option over there I think.
And I don’t know why but I was expecting to see the set up in your kitchen…:)

Los Angeles Will

Hey there JAS! Nice progress! I love the greenhouse!

Now if you add dig down 18 inches or so, add some rebar, and cement, those bases might work pretty well!. :lol:

I also have learned not to underestimate the weight of water! It's some heavy stuff. It seems like you have a good base of gravel, but if the soil under there gets saturated somehow, the bases might end up sinking in as well. Did you feel the quake up there the other day??? :?:

If you are going to focus on the engineering or over engineering of any aspect of your system, I think the bases or stands are the place to put that energy.

I have had my share of learning experiences from my bases. In particular, I learned why they don't recommend redwood for weight bearing structural building. I have had it crack on me in a few places under the weight of a growbed.

Great progress!

Los Angeles Will

I like cycling without fish. It seems to go pretty fast. Plus you don't have to worry about the fish. Plus feeder goldfish could introduce stuff you don't want into your system.

As for the fish, I met someone who was using bass, I think it was large mouth. He had experience with tilapia, and said that the bass grew just as fast or faster than the tilapia, and they bred readily in his tanks. I personally like the way bass taste.

I have never tried raising them, ,but they are purported to need clean water and high oxygen levels. Though I have seen them thrive in the LA river, and in some questionable lakes, so who knows.

jas94070

I like the idea of fish emulsion, but this is the first I'm hearing of it. When getting some, do I need to look for anything in particular, or just get the highest rated "fish emulsion" I can find?

Fully agree I need to up the support structure on the grow beds. I have them sort of full, and tried to lift one up with no luck. Will definitely up those supports within the next week (and keep the doors shut til then so dog doesn't get under there!). I have a ton of pallets from work I was thinking of putting under there for another layer of failsafe, and to nail my decorative boards to. May also fill the insides of the blocks with wood then nail them together for more shear strength. Haven't felt any earthquakes for the last 10-15 years, but they're getting more prevalent, so I suspect a big one is in the near future. Who knows, but best to plan for the worst!

Got the SLO done (see pic), and I'm liking it! Should help aerate the water nicely too! Was able to lift the fish tank off it's blocks to get It lower as well, which was nice. Might still keep the valves, but I can easily remove if needed.

That corner grow bed is hard to reach for sure, which was the main reason for turning the 2 closest to the corner longwise (barely fit). I can squeeze between the FT and ST to reach, but it's what I kinda had to do, to put the totes in their final places, while still allowing for future expansion. Also why I put the plumbing near the back of the FT, so I can get between easier.

Lol on thinking I'm planting anything this weekend. The rocks are still floating, so I guess I'll need to wait that out..

I think I'm gonna need to go get my hands on some bass, bluegill and trout filets to see which one I like better. It's kinda just what I can get my hands on though.. I've got a lead on striped bass, which I heard is the best tasting of the 3.

dstjohn99

Looking good. You are well on your way!! +1 for fishless cycling. I've done it using just clear ammonia and monitoring with the test kit. Clear ammonia can be hard to find, it seems they want to put lemon scent and lots of other stuff in ammonia, but it is out there. Others may have better advice but I always started by adding a tablespoon a day and checking the ammonia. Adjust as needed to keep it around 1.0. After a few weeks it will start to go down. Then start testing for nitrites as they will go up. Keep adding the ammonia until the ammonia and nitrites come down to zero then you are ready for fish. Keep adding ammonia until you get fish, maybe even increase the dosage a bit.

Watch out for a ammonia / nitrite spike when you add fish because they are a heavier bio load than a bit of ammonia. But you can manage going forward by limiting feed and partial water changes if needed.

There are lot's of sources for fish in the US that will ship, usually overnight. That's probably the best bet to get what you want with healthy stock. Though I STRONGLY urge you to get an aquarium or small tank/tub and set up a quarantine tank with good filtration. I have had more than one bad experience getting ich or other diseases in my system when I skipped the quarantine. I use 5ppt (50ppm) chloride salt, pH 7.0ish and hold them for 10days in that before transferring to my system. I won't put more than 2ppt salts in my system as it impacts some plants.

dstjohn99

Oh yeah, I forgot what I actually wanted to say. I would ditch the 90 and lateral on the bottom of the SLO, and just tilt the vertical pipe to reach the far corner directly. I think that will perform much better than with the extra 90 and side run.

With gravity flow, I think it's important to minimize bends, especially if you want solids to flow through freely.

skeggley

Velocity is the key with SLO’s, it needs to be able to lift the solids. The tee at the top of the slo needs to be below the height of the tank to be able to act as an overflow and sometimes having the water feed into the tank blasting straight into the water can agitate the water causing the solids to move around and get picked up by the stationary slo.

I never really understand the use of pure ammonia as it adds no minerals required for plant growth but yes it does work to cycle the system.
Any organic fish emulsion, no added soil setters or the like, seasol can also be added however this will add no ammonia which is required for cycling.
You can add a couple of teaspoons and test the water. I can’t remember the recommended ppm count for cycling but it’s not much and if too high it can retard cycling. Plenty of threads on the subject to help you out though.

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JAS's IBCs

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JAS's IBCs

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A place to discuss aquaponics